Document here, Link.
For the most part its a modified form of what is in Unearthed Arcana and in the 3.5e SRD. The main change is spell cost, and homebrew thing called spell overload.
Spell overload is mainly intended to be a stopper to say a high level character spamming very low level spells. Granted I am fairly new at this so I'll be the first to admit it might be buggy, broken or not particularly a good deterrent to that.
Mainly I'm looking to see if its fairly simple and straightforward, easy to understand, and if its fairly balanced.
Granted my players are pretty chill and not powergamers so abuse is not a big concern. But in theory a new player could join who is. Also I'd like formalized rules that aren't terribly broken.
So.... Questions? Comments? Concerns?
EDIT: It bares mentioning the setting itself is Homebrew, and many magic items and spells don't actually exist. Like Cloaks of Charisma, and Headbands of Intellect are exceptionally rare, and so to are rods of metamagic. When I say rare I mean, not purchasable in any store. Likewise some spells like rope trick don't exist.
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i think that spell overload might be a little severe. i think moving the cost up a single step at a time is all your going to need to reign that in. the main point of spellpoints is to allow spellcasters to sacrifice higher level spells to cast more lower level. this is similar in theory to modular spellslots.
+5 Toaster wrote: i think that spell overload might be a little severe. i think moving the cost up a single step at a time is all your going to need to reign that in. the main point of spellpoints is to allow spellcasters to sacrifice higher level spells to cast more lower level. this is similar in theory to modular spellslots. I see, Well my initial goal for spellpoints is more getting rid of the "Ah man I only prepared cure light wounds once," affect that to me anyway seems kinda silly in my meta thinking. However I see your point it might be a tad harsh. I've not heard of modular spellslots.
I may just take that advice, Spell overload is one of my first attempts at a mechanic. So I'm not shocked if it is over or under what I intended for it.
modular is essentially, "I choose to convert my 8th level spell slot into 2 4th level spell slots."
seems interesting, i played DDO for a little while and this was the system used, i like the core concept, and naturally there could be feats that grant you more spell points, but are tehre other ways of obtaining more spell points?
master_marshmallow wrote: seems interesting, i played DDO for a little while and this was the system used, i like the core concept, and naturally there could be feats that grant you more spell points, but are tehre other ways of obtaining more spell points? actually yeah, where are the bonus spellpoints for ability scores on the chart.
master_marshmallow wrote: seems interesting, i played DDO for a little while and this was the system used, i like the core concept, and naturally there could be feats that grant you more spell points, but are tehre other ways of obtaining more spell points? Currently the ideas floating about are,
Pearls of Power, depending on its level gives you added spell points based on its level. So a First Level Pearl Power grants 1 extra spellpoint and so on and so forth.
Feats might be made that grant extra spell points.
For Sorcerers, Oracles ect Spontaneous casters, class features might exist that help them go beyond the spell overload point. Basically their spellcasting stat goes up by 2 for the purposes of determining spell overload points allowing them to bend the spell overload. Kind of like the extra boost to physical stats transmutation wizards get. Or possibly just latent abilities to recharge spell points without the traditional resting time.
Obviously I'm thinking to borrow the table of bonus spell points based on your spellcasting stat. Similar to bonus spells per day already.
And finally just in the world they might encounter areas that simply restore their magic, or grant temporary spell points ect.
Any other ideas are definitely welcome.
potions that restore spell points
maybe create spells that work like cure spells that can restore spell points by like a d4
Conjuration
{0 level}restore minor mana:
1 spell point
{1st level}restore light mana:
1d4
{2nd level}restore moderate mana:
2d4
{3rd level}restore serious mana:
3d4
{4th level}restore critical mana:
4d4
creating a spell like this i can see as useful and balanced, as far as economy goes, having a cantrip that only gets back one spell point requires 2 turns to be able to cast another spell, or even more to recharge and use a higher one. and i like the idea of taxing spellcasters as a means of balance and this does it in a way that doesnt require you to force wizards to keep track of individual spell components, it does however make prepared casters slightly better than spontaneous casters in that they only need to prepare a spell once and thus can afford to only prepare one copy of a spell per spell level, to me, this means one can eliminate the bonus spells per day function granted by a high ability score and transcribe into more spell points per day
but it would mean that prepared casters need to find a way to prepare more spells per day other than leveling which isnt always possible should they want more spells, and clerics would need something in place to make up for not needing spontaneous cure/inflict as a class ability as it is now worthless
master_marshmallow wrote: potions that restore spell points
maybe create spells that work like cure spells that can restore spell points by like a d4
Conjuration
{0 level}restore minor mana:
1 spell point
{1st level}restore light mana:
1d4
{2nd level}restore moderate mana:
2d4
{3rd level}restore serious mana:
3d4
{4th level}restore critical mana:
4d4
creating a spell like this i can see as useful and balanced, as far as economy goes, having a cantrip that only gets back one spell point requires 2 turns to be able to cast another spell, or even more to recharge and use a higher one. and i like the idea of taxing spellcasters as a means of balance and this does it in a way that doesnt require you to force wizards to keep track of individual spell components, it does however make prepared casters slightly better than spontaneous casters in that they only need to prepare a spell once and thus can afford to only prepare one copy of a spell per spell level, to me, this means one can eliminate the bonus spells per day function granted by a high ability score and transcribe into more spell points per day
but it would mean that prepared casters need to find a way to prepare more spells per day other than leveling which isnt always possible should they want more spells, and clerics would need something in place to make up for not needing spontaneous cure/inflict as a class ability as it is now worthless
Yeah balancing it out is the other issue. Mainly giving spontaneous casters some boost to keep them relevant and competitive. One idea is just up their spellpoint pool.
Clerics, Druids ect who have the domain powers and such, it might just be that these spells are always prepared on top of the spells they do in fact prepare. So a good aligned cleric would prepare their spells normally and always of cure light wounds prepared, or Druids would always have summon natures ally prepared just as a given.
Yeah, all of this needs to be taken into consideration. I've been tinkering with all the classes to some extent.
how exactly did you come up with the point cost system for the spells?
seems like all the numbers could be lowered to match their level, and one could separate the spells themselves just by how many points they cost to cast, and metamagic feats would just affect spell points rather than spell levels since they are effectively the same thing now
you could also offer spell point progression that works like HP progression where the caster rolls a die each level and adds their primary casting stat modifier to see how many more spell points they get at maximum, and those spell points arent by day but rather work like a second HP bar, spontaneous casters would simply receive a higher spell point die compared to prepared casters, and partial casters would get lower dice, and half casters even lower
or maybe im crazy and that wouldnt work.... who knows
master_marshmallow wrote: how exactly did you come up with the point cost system for the spells?
seems like all the numbers could be lowered to match their level, and one could separate the spells themselves just by how many points they cost to cast, and metamagic feats would just affect spell points rather than spell levels since they are effectively the same thing now
you could also offer spell point progression that works like HP progression where the caster rolls a die each level and adds their primary casting stat modifier to see how many more spell points they get at maximum, and those spell points arent by day but rather work like a second HP bar, spontaneous casters would simply receive a higher spell point die compared to prepared casters, and partial casters would get lower dice, and half casters even lower
or maybe im crazy and that wouldnt work.... who knows
Well the cost of spell points actually comes from someones recommended changes on another forum. But basically it keeps it from being overpowered to an extent.
Level 0 = 00 (0).
Level 1 = 01 (0+1)
Level 2 = 03 (0+1+2)
Level 3 = 06 (0+1+2+3)
Level 4 = 10 (0+1+2+3+4)
Level 5 = 15 (0+1+2+3+4+5)
Level 6 = 21 (0+1+2+3+4+5+6)
Level 7 = 28 (0+1+2+3+4+5+6+7)
Level 8 = 36 (0+1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8)
Level 9 = 45 (0+1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9)
Thats the basic math behind the spell point cost. The actual class levels for spell points comes from the 3.5e SRD with some modifications for Bard, Inquisitor and Magus because they were different enough. I found another thread on it and got the idea for the progression of spell points for those class (1st-6th level casters).
I thought about having metamagic feats just cost their level in spellpoints but I also considered making metamagic feats work similar to metamagic rods simply because my setting has a lack of them in plentiful supply and it was easier for some players to figure out with very little bookkeeping.
As for having it work like hit die, I'm less into that sort of an idea. Mainly because bad luck could really wreck a spellcaster and theres already enough left to chance and luck.
Have used and created similar 'spell costs' but not the spell overload system. Looks interesting and am going to follow.
The best running system of this type I've actually played more than a few times had a spell cost of '(1 + spell level) squared'. Cantrips were thus both cheap and easy (the opposite of what you seem to be looking for), but we had scads of spell points (I was fairly powerful and had in the 600s.
A second idea for the Spell Overload mechanic is to allow pearls of power to extend each spell levels overload limit.
So if your limit is 4 because your a wizard with 18 intelligence, you could get a first level pearl of power that extends your limit of first level spells by 1 before the cost starts climbing up.
@+5 Toaster: Thanks for pimpinng out my system! =D
Other than that I will just drop this & this here.
EDIT: Seemingly Updated Ross Byers' PDF.
There's also our line of Houserule Handbooks that, as of now, are entirely devoted to spellpoints. You can check them out and read some of the reviews here: http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/s/superGeniusGames/pathfinderRPG/houserule Handbooks
Azaelas Fayth wrote: @+5 Toaster: Thanks for pimpinng out my system! =D
Other than that I will just drop this & this here.
EDIT: Seemingly Updated Ross Byers' PDF.
no problem, love to promote homebrew i like.
R. Hyrum Savage wrote: There's also our line of Houserule Handbooks that, as of now, are entirely devoted to spellpoints. You can check them out and read some of the reviews here: http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/s/superGeniusGames/pathfinderRPG/houserule Handbooks I bought this supplement. It was an incredible system at a reasonable price. I hope someday soon to run a game where I can employ it.
+5 Toaster wrote: Azaelas Fayth wrote: @+5 Toaster: Thanks for pimpinng out my system! =D
Other than that I will just drop this & this here.
EDIT: Seemingly Updated Ross Byers' PDF.
no problem, love to promote homebrew i like. Most of my Homebrew ends up getting good reviews... But I really like the idea of Spell Points but I am not sure how well the system fits with the basic Pathfinder System. Though working it into a Pathfinder Homebrew Setting based on Final Fantasy might be wonderful.
Recent threads in Homebrew and House Rules
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