So, I'm looking way ahead in the book (I'm only at Thistletop right now), and I was thinking it'd be cool to add something to Mhar Massif. When the PC's approach it, I plan to have Karzoug animate and speak through the mountain face. I think that'd be incredibly scary and foreboding. Also, I want him to trigger an avalanche with a roar or something.
However, how do I make an avalanche threatening for 16th-17th level PC's? Two of them (an air elemental bloodline sorcerer and a druid), are going to be able to fly pretty much at will by then, and the ranger and fighter are probably going to have some way as well (maybe by flying on the back of the druid when he shapeshifts, maybe the sorcerer casts it on them, who knows?). Does anyone have any thoughts on how to make a variant avalanche that will make this a challenging and cool encounter?
I agree, it's an incredibly cool effect, but there's almost no way for an environmental hazard to seriously affect PCs at this level. Flying isn't even a big concern. At 16th level a sorceror can use quickened dimension door to take the whole party away with him, or throw up a forcewall to deflect the avalanche around them, or do half a dozen equally obnoxious things.
Maybe Karzog's spell includes dimensional anchor and anti-flight effects? Get the PCs mentally prepped for how high-level wizards can neutralize lots of their toys (and get them thinking how to neutralize him).
Or maybe there's something there that the PCs want and the avalanche threatens to destroy it? You might have to introduce something that they would be interested in.
Maybe the avalanche is an illusion intended to distract them from the real threat? He could be doing the whole thing with a limited wish, or have an ally handling the illusion while he calls in or releases or whatever the other things.
You could have a swarm of elementals come out of the avalanche... but maybe most of them are air elementals (or some variant of it with extra damage from all the sharp rocks they do) and only a few earth elementals -- if they stay low they have fewer foes to fight. Some kind of greedy devils might also be making an appearance.
Thanks for the reply, tonyz, and I'm glad you like the idea :) Those are some really good suggestions; I'd feel a little cheap having to take away flying but we'll see about teleportation, so I think I'll take two of your other suggestions and combine them. What do you think of this:
Maybe they hear about a place to get Sihedron rings to bypass the occluding field, and they go there. After fighting their way through some encounters, they get to the area with the rings from which they can see Mhar Massif. The mountain animates, speaks, and Big K causes the avalanche. They have to make a decision between fleeing immediately and grabbing the rings. In addition, parts of the avalanche break off and reveal themselves to be ice and air elementals. A dynamic ground and air battle ensues while they try to avoid the avalanche. If I don't have some type of teleportation block effect on, then they can just grab the rings and teleport out, so I think I'll have to include something like that to make it work. Anyone have any thoughts on refining this?
Another great display of power could be to let the avalanche look like an avalanche and just as the characters fly up, the avalance animates (or is controlled like from a telekinetic effect) and fights like a huge elemental - only for a few rounds of course as the feat is draining for Karzoug and his powers (end the encounter with him taunting them and just wanting to show them the near limitless power he possesses and what awaits them if they proceed) (a smart character asks himself why Karzoug didn't just kill them here and now if his power is so limitless).
Edit: By "huge elemental" I did not mean the D&D size classification. I meant a big mofo ice, snow, rock, tree, kick-ass elemental :)
I like that idea. Do something like a Shadow of the Colossus type enemy for them to fight. And if you really want to get fancy. Create a paper mini (well it wont really be mini anymore at that size) for the party to fight on. That would be pretty awesome.
I have a few months before my party gets that I might do this if I have time.
I hate being negative like this, but I'm not sure an avalanche is a good idea. A sufficiently large enough one might threaten the city, and I don't think K is desperate enough to do that.
I do like the idea of it talking, however. It would show the PCs that Karzoug is aware of their presence, and if Karzoug also commands minions to zero in on their location, that might compel them to hustle forward, if the whole city might be after them. Well, take that last bit of advice with a grain of salt. My players would look forward to having XP and gold hand-delivered to them.
I'd advise against a dimensional lock effect. The spell itself doesn't affect a large area, and if anchor rays are shot at them, it's kind of silly. It could be considered very railroady. I encourage altering your goals to fit in with what you expect the PCs to do. If you think they'll teleport away, make that your goal. You've successfully scared them off, made them waste resources. Having the talking mountain also provides some misdirection, but it's thin ice. If the party is not trying to be particularly stealthy, but aren't being overt either, it's a way for you to "just decide" that Karzoug and his minions know of their presence. If they are trying to be stealthy, though, and Karzoug announces he knows they're there, that feels like an arbitrary move.
((Quick internet disclaimer: I hope I don't offend -- I'm not trying to tell you how to run your game, or make an accusation that you're "doing it wrong". This is how I try to think things through to keep myself in-line, as I'm aware it's often easy to forget to look through the player perspective.))
@JakobDK: Good points about Mhar and the mountain. I don't have a problem with Karzoug animating the mountain for a short speech and the avalanche though. I think of Mhar as more within the mountain in essence rather than physically in the mountain itself; with that said, I don't think he'd interfere too much with the animation of the stone since it's not really threatening him. This is supported by the fact that ancient Thassilon sculpted the face without interference, but just had a eerie feeling that something was watching them. Regardless, I'm not sure about using Mhar anyway, so this might all be moot :P
I do like the idea of just his voice echoing through the mountains as well. The one, huge elemental thing is interesting as well. Lots of stuff to consider. Good thing I have plenty of time! :) Thanks for the input.
@Brett Sebastian: Ooooh. Shadow of the Colossus is one of my favorite games. Good images to evoke. Thanks! I'm glad you like the idea. A paper mini is an awesome idea, but probably out of my league. However, if you make one, be sure to take a picture and let me see! :D
@Stazamos: No worries. Glad you like the image of the mountain talking. I didn't get a feeling that you were telling me how to run my game at all, and I think you make some good points. I think you're definitely right about the dimensional lock effect. It does seem fairly railroady. Also, if I know my PC's, they won't be very stealthy, ha! I definitely won't make it something I force them into though; I'll just have something ready in case they make decisions that lead to it naturally.
@Generally speaking: Thanks everyone! Any more thoughts would be appreciated!
Keep in mind that a high-level party will kill one huge elemental so fast you'll blink and miss it. Much better to have multiple elementals, even of a CR slightly lower than the party, so they have at least a few targets to split their fire among.
@tonyz: Haha, you're right of course. However, I meant "huge" elemental in the sense that JakobDK meant it in his suggestion:
By "huge elemental" I did not mean the D&D size classification. I meant a big mofo ice, snow, rock, tree, kick-ass elemental :)
It would almost certainly be a custom-built thing.
And I meant exactly the same thing as you did. Any single huge target is obliteratable, and will be obliterated, by a high-level party. The action economy kills them too fast to really matter. Multiple creatures usually work better.
Ah, my apologies; I thought you misunderstood. We'll see. I might be able to come up with a single enemy that will put them to the test...I'll probably be posting an actual encounter description for advice once I get closer to the actual time I run the encounter, but that's a ways away.
Thanks again for the advice!