I'm working on a homebrew system and would love some honest feedback on the skills. The base mechanics in this system are mostly unchanged; the main goal is to consolidate and clean up the actual skills themselves. So here's what I've come up with (keep in mind that this system is still in a brainstorming phase):
Each of these also has a unique combat mechanic. Diplomacy can be used to improve a hostile target's attitude in the middle of combat (which isn't possible with the other 2 skills) by taking a -20 penalty and using a full-round action. Improving the target's attitude toward you means that it won't attack you. You can also take feats to do this quicker and possibly be able to do more than just convince the target to not attack you.
Bluff still uses Feint and Intimidate still uses Demoralize, except these mechanics can be improved further with feats. A chain of feats stemming from Improved Feint allows you to eventually use Feint as a free action by taking a hefty penalty. A chain of feats for Demoralize adds a "taunt" mechanic to it and, you guessed it, allows you to reduce the action time by taking a penalty.
The Ride skill is also rolled into this skill. A delima exists here in that it makes sense for riding and handling a creature to use the same skill, but normally Handle Animal uses CHA while Ride uses DEX. My solution? Make the skill DEX based. This can be explained by the fact that a very charismatic person doesn't necessarily have a way with animals or other creatures. Similarly, someone who isn't charismatic can still have a natural way with animals and other creatures. Humanoid interaction isn't the same as animal/creature interaction. Furthermore, getting a creature to do what you want often means PHYSICALLY handling it or doing it with body language, which is better represented with DEX than CHA.
I've changed the "treat deadly wounds" mechanic (the one that lets you heal HP with this skill) so that you heal your subject for half of your total Medical check (still usable only once per subject in a day and still consumes 2 healing kits per use). My reasoning is that the amount healed should be solely based on the user's Medical skill, regardless of what level the subject is.
My first beef with Pathfinder's Concentration mechanic is that it's based on caster level. This means that a multiclass caster is worse at concentrating on his spells than a full caster is. To me, this is poor design because it discourages multiclassing as a caster even more than it's already discouraged. One's ability to concentrate should not be based on caster level.
My second beef is that your spellcasting ability score is what you use to concentrate, regardless of what that ability score is. Now, don't get me wrong - this is not a terrible mechanic. It's fair in terms of game balance. I do, however, have a BIG problem when logic is tossed aside in games for no good reason. Concentrating has absolutely nothing to do with your CHA - I don't care if it is your spellcasting attribute. Not by default, anyway... a feat, item, or class feature might let you do it, but under normal circumstances, a joe shmoe's pretty smile is not going to keep his spell held up while a couple of orcs carve him a new hole. Is it too game breaking to ask that Concentration be based on CON, and to require some investment in discipline to be good at it, regardless of what your class levels actually are? Feel free to discuss. I realize this is just a matter of opinion.
My Concentration also applies to more than just spellcasting. When making a ranged attack, you can use it as a "defensive shooting" mechanic to avoid attacks of opportunity, just like spellcasters can. I've never understood why spellcasters get this mechanic exclusively, while archers get the shaft. Shooting a bow successfully with someone beating on you takes concentration just like casting a spell does. The idea is to use this skill for anything that requires focus and discipline.
Knowledge: Civilization - Appraise, Engineering, Local, & Nobility are all rolled into this Knowledge. Anything related to civilized races, structures, culture, etc. is tied to this.
Knowledge: Wilderness - Survival, Nature, Geography, and Dungeoneering are all rolled into this Knowledge. I've removed aberations from this category and added dragons. Wild creatures and natural structures are tied to this.
Knowledge: Academics - History, Religion, and Planes are all roled into this Knowledge. I've removed undead from this category (you'll see why), while aberations and outsiders are both tied to this Knowledge.
Knowledge: Magic - Spellcraft and Arcana are both included in this Knowledge. Constructs, undead, and magical beasts are all tied to this Knowledge. I would also like to adjust some of the mechanics involved with Spellcraft here (in relation to magic items), but that's another discussion.
Knowledge: Combat - a brand new Knowledge. Information about weapons, armor, poisons, classes, abilities, fighting styles, weaknesses, strengths, and anything related to combat can be gained using this skill. This skill can be used to assess information about an enemy just like the other knowledges can, but again I feel that it's okay to have this overlap.
Interesting. I won't comment too much on yours here (if I do it will be on your thread), but in short, I agree with some of your approaches while I disagree with others. :P
most of what we did is identical, id like to collaborate, since im open to a lot of ideas
heck, if i wasnt willing to collaborate with someone i wouldnt have made it an open thread discussion
i originally had all the social skills as one like you have, and i just called it Socialize, i do prefer it, but including Deception gave me a way to incorporate Disguise
Handle creature is almost identical to my Tame
your Physical is named Athletics in my system
the main differences we have come from separating knowledge skills from spellcraft and UMD
personally i like knowledge skills to always be just that, and not have tangible applications
for that purpose (and because i like the concept of being able to identify spells by their components rather than having to roll a matching knowledge) i kept spellcraft, but incorporated UMD into it, rather than into Knowledge(Arcana)
Specialty is basically the same thing as my Business, except i included Appraise into mine where you kept Perform
our condensed knowledges also match up pretty well, save for combat
i dislike concentration as a skill, and i dislike the powergaming aspect of multiclassing, its one of the things i really liked about pathfinder over 3.5, imo splitting up your training between classes shouldnt make you better than someone who stays specialized, especially when changing spellcasting classes, maybe make it spellcraft based like crafting magic items is?
i also like the PFRPG concentration mechanic because i felt it appropriate to replace the bards perform skill check with a concentration check, because they should be the same anyway
our systems are so similar it would be dumb not to consider melding our ideas
i originally had all the social skills as one like you have, and i just called it Socialize, i do prefer it, but including Deception gave me a way to incorporate Disguise
I did not consolidate all of the social skills into 1. If you'll read my entry, each is still its own skill in my system. I simply grouped them together in this thread for readability.
Each social skill has its own unique niche in the game, and I have found that they should be kept separately from each other (in regards to the skill system). I have incorporated Disguise into Bluff in my system, which you would also know if you read my entry...
the main differences we have come from separating knowledge skills from spellcraft and UMD
personally i like knowledge skills to always be just that, and not have tangible applications
for that purpose (and because i like the concept of being able to identify spells by their components rather than having to roll a matching knowledge) i kept spellcraft, but incorporated UMD into it, rather than into Knowledge(Arcana)
If you look closely at the current rules for Spellcraft, every single one of the mechanics listed make sense sense for being tied to a Knowledge skill. Knowing about a spell being cast... knowing the properties of a magic item... learning spells from a spellbook... etc. They all easily make sense as a knowledge skill. I disagree with your sentiment that Knowledge skills shouldn't have "tangible applications". By that logic, Knowledge skills should not be able to reveal enemy weaknesses, which is already a part of their mechanic in the game. Identifying a magic item or a spell being cast has the potential to be every bit as important as identifying an enemy's resistances or having a good idea about which deity your enemy worships.
I disagree with the idea of grouping UMD with Spellcraft. UMD has nothing to do with being good at magic, but rather the ability to "trick" magic items to get them to do what you want them to do. It's a device manipulation mechanic, not a magical skill. This is the reason I have grouped it with Disable Device into my new "Tinkering" skill.
i dislike concentration as a skill, and i dislike the powergaming aspect of multiclassing, its one of the things i really liked about pathfinder over 3.5, imo splitting up your training between classes shouldnt make you better than someone who stays specialized, especially when changing spellcasting classes, maybe make it spellcraft based like crafting magic items is?
i also like the PFRPG concentration mechanic because i felt it appropriate to replace the bards perform skill check with a concentration check, because they should be the same anyway
I agree that multiclassing shouldn't make you stronger than a single-classed character, but I disagree that it should be dismissed as an option. On the contrary, it should be ENCOURAGED as an option. Just because you personally don't like multiclassing doesn't mean that a different character with a clever idea and build concept shouldn't be able to take advantage of multiclassing. While Pathfinder has done quite well to strengthen single class builds, multiclassing still has its place as an option. Otherwise, it wouldn't be in the game. I still think that one's ability to concentrate and one's ability to cast spells should be SEPARATE from each other by default. Concentrating/focusing on something sometimes has nothing to do with casting a spell at all. I'll have to agree to disagree with you here.
our systems are so similar it would be dumb not to consider melding our ideas
A few of our approaches are similar, but we do have some glaring differences. I am going to have to respectfully decline, because I am already collaborating with others in developing my homebrew system. I would, however, be willing to give you more feedback in your thread if you want, and welcome any further feedback you might have on mine. ^_^
Shameless Bump!