So in the vein of feeling like the poor rogue does not have the love it deserves, I wrote a small set of rules to add to the base rogue, giving it a few more options.
I have a few holes that need filling, and not sure some of them belong where they currently are, so please let me know what you think/come up with. Each level of the class ability should have at least two choices.
Click here => Brain or Brawn <= for the latest version.
Brain or Brawn: Starting at 4th level, and every 4 levels after, you select either brain or brawn. Your choice may change each time you gain this ability, but you must take them in order. For example, if at 4th level you select Brawn I, at 8th level your choices are Brawn II or Brain I. Once selected, you will have one more choice to make.
Brawn I: Select one of the following:
+1 attack bonus to sneak attacks.
+2 bonus to cmb checks.
Brawn II: Select one of the following:
+1 dodge bonus to armor class.
Opening I: During a full attack action, you can choose to forgo any number of attacks in order to count an equal number of attacks as flanking (attack bonus and sneak attack, if applicable).
Brawn III: Select one of the following:
increase the dice you sneak attacks with by one step.
A bonus Feat.
Brawn IV: Select one of the following:
Opening II: During a full attack action, you can choose to forgo any number of attacks. You count 2 attacks as flanking for each attack you forgo. You gain an extra +2 bonus to these attacks if you also have Opening I.
Brawn V: Select one of the following:
Brain I: Select one of the following:
+2 bonus to skill of choice.
Select a 1st level spell usable 1/d.
Brain II: Select one of the following:
Erudite: select a knowledge skill. It is considered a class skill from now and you gain a +2 bonus. If you have 5 or more ranks, you gain a +2 attack bonus to sneak attack against creatures associated with that knowledge skill, even if they are immune to sneak attack damage. If you have 10 or more ranks, you can deal sneak attack damage to them, even if they are normally immune.
Brain III: Select one of the following:
select a 3rd level spell (or lower) usable 2/d.
Brain IV: Select one of the following:
Expanded magic: Double all per day uses of spells gained with the Brain class ability (this applies to future selections as well).
Enhance UMD: if you activate an item and roll double the Use Magic Device DC or higher, you do not expend any charges from the item for that particular use. No one item can benefit from this ability more than 3 times per day.
Brain V: Select one of the following:
select a 5th level spell (or lower), usable 3/d.
I think just give rouges full BAB/ d10 hd, and arcane spells of any one school with ranger progression would go a long way to helping the class.
That is not bad at all (medium armor, would not hurt terribly either). I just wanted to keep the rogue flavor of many choices without making blanket changes, just add-on.
bump
Brawn III should probably have the bonus feats related to combat, for thematic effect. am definitely curious whats going to end up in brawn V.
one recommendation would be a once a day touch attack called chink in the armor.
Motionmatrix;
Perhaps you should consider rephrasing your question to include-
"Other than giving the Rogue full BAB and a d10 hit die."
That will generate better suggestions, ( I don't think that works BWT.)
My suggestion is to;
A). Increase the Rogue's SA, and only the Rogue's, to a d8.
B). Rogues gain a talent at each level.
@+5toaster: I am thinking the same as far as the feats, I just didn't think minimum level 12 warranted the limitation. What are you thinking chink in the armor does? remember its a level 20 ability that requires a full investment into brawn, so it should be awesome if it is only 1/d.
@Queenmoragan: SA is already being increased (multiple times if desired) by brawn. If I make rogues gain a talent every level, I am better off just rolling these into talents. While I like it, I won't do it for this particular post.
I forgot to state you can always go back and choose a previous one, even if you already have it.
at what level would it not be broken if one of the brawn choices allow sneak attack damage to multiply for critical hits?
@+5toaster: I am thinking the same as far as the feats, I just didn't think minimum level 12 warranted the limitation. What are you thinking chink in the armor does? remember its a level 20 ability that requires a full investment into brawn, so it should be awesome if it is only 1/d.
@Queenmoragan: SA is already being increased (multiple times if desired) by brawn. If I make rogues gain a talent every level, I am better off just rolling these into talents. While I like it, I won't do it for this particular post.
I forgot to state you can always go back and choose a previous one, even if you already have it.
at what level would it not be broken if one of the brawn choices allow sneak attack damage to multiply for critical hits?
then change it to work after a round of studying your opponent, and have it count as flatfooted for sneak attack.
Sorry Motionmatrix,
I should have stated first that I think both "brain or brawn" are the wrong approach.
Both are interesting, however I believe both are unnecessarily complicated.
Thus I suggested a simpler modification.
Increasing Rogue's SA to a d8 should help with the "SA damage is too low" crowd.
Increasing talents to one each level, starting at 2nd level should help with the "talents suck" crowd.
You could also add;
C). A Rogue gains a +1 circumstance bonus per 2 Rogue levels to hit whenever she makes a SA.
D). Rogues can make ranged SA out to 30' + 10' per every 2 levels of Rogue.
Just trying to offer a simpler solution to improving the Rogue.
@ +5 toaster: I'm in. I like it. in fact I am dropping it to 4 and bringing 5 as an aoe.
@Queen Moragan: I like your suggestions. In fact, I would probably go with something similar in my games. It is simple and elegant.
But that is not the point of this particular exercise. I have a couple of players that want something like this, and we started it together. So here I am cleaning it up, and using the community for editing eyes/finishing touches.
___
So brawn IV has:
Chink in the armor I: if you spend a full round studying an opponent (no further than 60 ft away), you may consider him flat footed for the remainder of combat for purposes of sneak attack. You may have your Int modifier worth of enemies "studied" at any given time.
Brawn V:
Chink in the armor II: You can spend a full round studying a group of opponents (within 30 ft. of each other) in order to consider them flat footed for the remainder of combat. If you have Chink in the armor I, you may now use it as part of a full defense action against any opponent you are engaged with.
I like the idea of making SA with a longer range, just not sure where it actually belongs (between brains or brawn and where).
@ +5 toaster: I'm in. I like it. in fact I am dropping it to 4 and bringing 5 as an aoe.
@Queen Moragan: I like your suggestions. In fact, I would probably go with something similar in my games. It is simple and elegant.
But that is not the point of this particular exercise. I have a couple of players that want something like this, and we started it together. So here I am cleaning it up, and using the community for editing eyes/finishing touches.
___
So brawn IV has:
Chink in the armor I: if you spend a full round studying an opponent (no further than 60 ft away), you may consider him flat footed for the remainder of combat for purposes of sneak attack. You may have your Int modifier worth of enemies "studied" at any given time.
Brawn V:
Chink in the armor II: You can spend a full round studying a group of opponents (within 30 ft. of each other) in order to consider them flat footed for the remainder of combat. If you have Chink in the armor I, you may now use it as part of a full defense action against any opponent you are engaged with.
I like the idea of making SA with a longer range, just not sure where it actually belongs (between brains or brawn and where).
first of all, yay i helped!
next i would think thrown weapon range extension belongs in brawn, and straight range belongs in brains.
I don't think there is a difference between the two as far as sneak attack is concerned, right?
Link updated
I don't think there is a difference between the two as far as sneak attack is concerned, right?
Link updated
yeah true, my logic was archers tend to be strategic in the placement and attack, people with throwing weapons to use them in the heat of battle as a brutal attack. admittedly both of these are conjecture on my part.