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Well, just a suggestion and I wanted to what people feels like.
I just got my copy of the Begginer Box, and I'm VERY happy I own this. I started roleplaying with a sistem by the name Anima: Beyond Fantasy... which is Beyond complex :) I still ade it to deal with it because of one thing: It's presentation made me still awake wile reading the rules, which were always easy to find.
Then I moved on to D&D 4E, which has been my favorite Role Playing Game so far; again, it's simplicity and design made it good for every sort of player and master, and the book was easy to digest, and was very well placed. It took you by the hand and guided you trough it to understan it's nature. I wanted something more fitting for an epic adventure, and I liked Pathfinder's classes and world.
So I got the core Book (dunno which printing), and the bestiary and weeeelll... I noticed it was CLEARLY written for previous 3.5 players and I don't think they had newcomers on mind. I mean, finding some guidelines for character creation beyond the glossary was a pain (like, how to properly calculate total hit points at first level... they made it clear BEYOND the classes section) and the spellcasting part was just overwhelming... a courtain of text, UNNECESARY courtain of text.
I was losing my faith when I got this amazing little pack of awesomeness, and I have to say I'm impressed at it's design and presentation. From the VERY moment you go on with the solo campaign, which as an awesome idea, to the spells, which were presented in colorful ways, explained WELL, and the art made it very attractive... More than the art was the fact that both books were wellcoming you and making you grow more and more extited.... they were leading thr reader step by step, trough some complex rules, but in the simplest way possible, without expecting you to dabble trough everything like if you HAD to know beforehand how to play.
I'm starting to understand the game little by little, and I hope I can master it soon enough... and make a Summoner to try it out later (yup, got Advanded Player's Guide). However I just open the books and I feel I just switched from my nice, understanding teacher, to the old geezer that will yell if I'm wrong and slap me with a ruller.
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I don't know anyone who's ever learned a system primarily from reading the rule book.
Usually we learn RPGs by being taught by the group we're gaming with. Gaming has rulebooks for reference, but the majority of the learning is done by listening to people who learned it before you.
Having a book that is approachable and well laid out is nice, but I can't think of any system I disliked because of bad formatting. Once I'd learned the system from my friends, all I really needed was the Index in the back.
(I have seen a few games with crappy Indexes though. That's super annoying.)
I don't know anyone who's ever learned a system primarily from reading the rule book.
Hello, nice to meet you. ;)
I and my group have a long history of learning a system by picking it up and giving it a go.
I still laugh at the memory of making characters for Powers and Perils years ago, and confusing 2d10 for a characteristic with rolling percentile dice.
To the Original poster, i suggest looking at martial types of characters first when learning the system. The Summoner (and eidolon specifically) are one of the more complicated classes to learn well.
The CRB is a great book once you understand the basics. However for a new player of 3.5 or pathfinder it can be a little hard to follow.
I have to agree with you on something the begginer box is more readable since that is what it was intended for. After your done with it go back to the CRB and use it as a reference manual as you play. That way will get deeper knowledge of the game gradually.
Maybe in the future we will have a second edition or something like that of the CRB. If that ever happen I hope ,as I have repeatedly mentioned on similar threads, that the rules remains virtually the same as they are now but the wording and the book organization be made more new player friendly.
I had a similar experience to you, although I've played a bunch of systems so I guess am somewhat used to being lost and just ploughing on regardless.
A "Corebook Revisited" would be something I'd love as well, but I dont think it's likely to happen. My guess would be that it would entail a phenomenal amount of work for a pretty small payoff (those who were comfortable with 3.5 dont really need it and that's a pretty significant proportion of the fanbase).
In case you dont know about it, there's a really good 'transition' PDF helping people move from the Beginner Box to the Core rules. I found it really useful (and as well written as the Beginner Box).
I don't know anyone who's ever learned a system primarily from reading the rule book.Hello, nice to meet you. ;)
Well that's one. :)
Law of averages I suppose.
Well, figuring out how to make a Summoner after making a Wizard with the Begginer Box guidelines wasn't THAT hard, but yes, it's a class you have to read very carefuly first since the Eidolon depends directly on your stat growth; plus you have to be VERY careful when picking your Summoner magic since well, as the summoning guy your role is to run arround buffing your pet once in a while.
The problem here is that I'm not from the USA, and if people have a hard time there finding groups... I have it even harder :/ I've tried finding groups in my cirty, but I confirmed there are NONE, so I've always run adventures with a couple friends. We're pretty young too, and people our age isn't really interested in rolepaying (our youngest member is 15 years old, I'm 20 myself).
So... I've always had to learn by reading.
Thankfully I know all the bases, and I understand CBM and CBD very well.
I just hope next edition of Pathfinder is aimed to new players as well, cuz it's not nice to be on the spot where your only option is to try it for yourself and playtesting with friends... taking more than an hour and half to defeat 6 goblins -.-
And thanks fr the PDF, it will be helpful! ^^
Yeah, the Core Rulebook is . . . clunky. It was Paizo's first big rulebook, it was thrown together as a reaction to decisions of another company, and it was largely aimed at experienced 3.x hands anyway. It's definitely not new player friendly, and could use a thorough redesign. But that's probably not near the top of Paizo's current priority stack.
And summoners . . . summoners are headaches; the Advanced Player's Guide is well-named. I've been playing RPGs for two dozen years, been playing D&D 3.x since it first came out in 2000, have half a dozen minor RPG publishing credits -- and I still had trouble figuring out that class the first time I had to GM one.
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Best way I've found to learn the game: join your local Pathfinder Society lodge and play as many games as you're able. The people are friendly and very helpful when you don't know stuff, and there is always someone who can answer your questions.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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I would love to see the core book done over entirely as the beginner's box was done. I'm not certain this is in the works though, there is a lot of resistance to any change and a major rework of the rules to make them more understandable would inevitably introduce a lot of subtle changes into the system.
yeah people sometimes talks about what sort of things they would like in a new "edition". I think the one thing I desire most is simply a rewritten core rulebook that made things easier to find and simplified sections. I haven't played 3.5 in over half a decade, and its been slow going for me relearning the rules. I'd be completely lost if there wasn't an online PRD I can search through
yeah people sometimes talks about what sort of things they would like in a new "edition". I think the one thing I desire most is simply a rewritten core rulebook that made things easier to find and simplified sections. I haven't played 3.5 in over half a decade, and its been slow going for me relearning the rules. I'd be completely lost if there wasn't an online PRD I can search through
Well reading the topic, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who feels the Core Book needs a begginer-friendly edition... specially since I'm LOVING the game.
I'd like to see those "Go to page X" nice pointers, they helped speed up creation, and made it fun.
I came back to D&D with the third edition and I love the Beginner's Box. Even though I could use all of the options in the core rules I've picked through the bits I want from the Core Book to add to the Beginner's rules to play the game I'd like.