Goblin Squad Member
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The basis for this idea comes from here.
Stables would be present in at least one location at every NPC settlement. Players can also build stables attached to an inn or warehouse. All player settlements are capable of building Inns and there will be hotspots to build them along most roadways as well. Warehouses can be attached inns or work camps. A stable is where caravan related contracts begin and end. Stables may or may not charge a fee to caravans that make an official stop there via the contract system.
Caravans are groups of wagon, carts, pack animals, and mounts bound from one stable to another via the contract system. They must stay within 100 meters of the caravan leader in order to stay part of the same caravan, or 300 meters for gaurds. Leaving the area of the caravan as a guard or driver will result in loss of alignment and reputation if the caravan leader levels a complaint.
All contracts start and end in stables.
Passenger contracts allow a passenger to ride in a wagon/cart or on an animal being lead by a driver's mount via rope. Passenger contracts may come with insurance policies that are to be paid if the passenger is robbed or killed. Passenger contract expire the moment a passenger disembarks or reaches their destination.
Transport contracts can be established between any stables connected to warehouses. They specify goods are to be taken from a starting warehouse to an ending warehouse and left there to be collected by a specified group or individual. Transport contracts may come with insurance which is to be paid if the goods being transported do not reach their destination in-tact within a specified time.
Driver contracts are contracts between the driver of a cart/wagon or someone leading pack animals/passenger mounts and the caravan leader. They state the driver will follow the caravan leader within 100 meters (or another specified distance) from a specified stable to another stable. The carts/animals used may be owned by the driver or borrowed from the caravan leader.
Escort contracts are set between a caravan leader and a guard/guard leader. They state the guard or group of guards must follow within 300 meters (or another specified distance) of the caravan unless killed or engaged in combat.
Attacking a caravan can be initiated from any watchtower, hideout, fort, settlement, blockade etc. It can also be initiated from a shorter range by just running up and using an attack against the caravan. It pulls caravans out of fast travel speed until all non-guard members exit combat. Attacking a caravan that does not belong to an evil nation, nation you are at war with, or group/individual who is exiled from your hex (and is in your hex) is considered evil.
Robbing a caravan can be initiated from any watchtower, hideout, fort, settlement, blockade etc. It allows the player initiating the rob action to demand goods being transported or a toll without a limitation on what can be charged or the need to own the hex in which the player is robbed. Any member of the convoy may resist at any point. If the convoy leader resists it becomes a standard attack action. If a rob action ends without violence less alignment is lost than in an attack action in which the members of the convoy were killed.
Inspections of a caravan can be initiated from any watchtower, hideout, fort, settlement, blockade or inspection station. They allow the inspecting group to search the convoy for criminals or cargo that is considered contraband (Contraband consists of certain cargo types such as slaves, or hard drugs, and anything banned by the owners of the hex.) Owners of a hex may additionally charge a toll up to a certain amount based on the number of carts/animals in the convoy, passengers being transported, and approximate value of cargo being transported. A convoy may only be inspected/tolled by the same group once per voyage. Initiating an inspecting in a hex your group does not control is considered a chaotic (but not evil) action. Like robberies, inspections can be resisted though resisting an inspection by the owners of a hex is a chaotic action that will flag you as a criminal.
Hitch-hiking can be intiated by walking along with your thumb held out. If a caravan sees you and decides to stop they can take you aboard as a passenger. This is a good aligned action unless they charge you a fee.
Stow-Aways can slip aboard a wagon or cart using a stealth check. If they slip into a passenger cart they can be revealed by asking for their ticket. If they slip aboard a cargo cart the can only be revealed by a successful search of the cart. They can also be revealed during inspection or robbery actions, or if they fail their stealth check while exiting the cart. If found they can be legally attacked unless they pay a fine up to 100% of the rate the convoy is charging for passengers. After they pay the fine you may grant or refuse their passage. If you charge over 30% of the rate for a passage and then deny them passage it is considered a lawful-evil act. Guards may demand a bonus for catching stow-aways in their contract.
Caravan Leaders have security rating, speed rating, and satisfaction rating. Security is based on how often passengers die, cargo gets lost, and they get robbed. Speed is based off how long it takes them to travel between stables vs. the average time required to make the same trip by other caravans. Planned stops and inspections are subtracted from this time. Satisfaction rating is simply how satisfied passengers and people's cargo they transport are with their overall performance.
Drivers have reliability and satisfaction rating. Reliability is based on how often they drop out of caravan range and the caravan leader levels a complaint. Satisfaction is a rating of general satisfaction given by caravan leaders
Guards have reliability, satisfaction, and security rating. Reliability and satisfaction for guards functions identically to drivers. Security functions identically to that of caravan leaders.
Passengers and people initiating transport contracts have a risk factor rating based on how often caravan they/their goods are on come under attack or get robbed. (Basically to let caravan leaders know if they may be working with bandits.)
NPC caravans run exclusively between major NPC towns. Primarily Fort Riverwatch, Fort Inevitable, and Thornkeep. These run no goods or passengers that heavily armed (Based on the threads required to fully thread all gear in the players inventory and currently equipped combine.) They are very expensive to book passage on and move slower than most player caravans but are accompanied by powerful NPC guards.
Tickets may be issued by any individual or group and entitle the bearer to passage of up to a certain value to a specified stable/s as long as the issuer has money at those stables. The issuer may also specify it the ticket is tradeable or not and set an expiration date. If a caravan leader accepts a ticket it can be converted into money upun reaching the specified stable. All new players are issued 3 tickets at the value of an NPC transport good for transport to any stable. (The other main function of tickets is guild recruitment.)
Energy is refreshed by stopping at stables connected to inns for at least 3 minutes and gives a bonus that wears off over time. During stops passengers, drivers, and guards may leave the caravan with no penalties as long as they return within a time set by the caravan leader. Bonus is undetermined, the main point is encouraging periodic stops to promote trade and player interaction.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This system is well thought out and would be good to have in game. I'm hoping that river traffic is treated the same way.
One note, there should be a counter skill for Inspections. You allow for the searching of contraband, but not the concealment of it.
Smuggling should have skills or concealment and even crafting skills for making clothing items, crates, and even wagons with concealed storage spaces. These skills would obviously work against the inspection skill making it more difficult to detect contraband.
Andius, I like the idea. I've got a couple of questions, comments about your proposed system.
Being as we aren't certain how warehouses function, do you envision these warehouses to be identical in cost, function as a typical warehouse built within a settlement, and would the same permission(s) be available to these as to a settlement warehouse?
Shouldn't there be a timer that counts down if a member ventures too far from the caravan? Many things could cause someone to become separated from a caravan temporarily. If they rejoin the caravan before the timer counts down, it seems like there's no harm nor foul?
You mention an alignment hit and reputation hit if someone leaves their spot in a caravan. How would that work in the case that someone goes LD, or gets kicked offline? When they return would they return with the caravan or at the point they lost connection?
Regarding inspections. I believe someone mentioned, during an interview, that there would be no impediments to someone traveling via the main roadway system that aren't ambushes or assaults, how do inspections not fall within this realm? Collecting a toll by blocking a roadway seems (to me) like an act of extortion. I wonder how others view this? How will caravan members tell the difference between an inspection and a act of banditry unless they wait until the approaching group reaches them and initiates an attack? It seems like an easy way for bandits to get in position before attacking a caravan if its members cannot act until they are threatened or assaulted?
I would think that the speed which a caravan leader and driver are able to maintain would be based on skill. But how would that be relayed to potential passengers or merchants? Perhaps a screen accessed by /look-ing at the character?
Would the complaints you mention go into a characters reputation, or would they be shown on a different screen? I'm concerned that a characters information screen where you view their reputation will grow to become confusing with different tabs for different sets of information unless its all factored into fewer entries if you see what I mean?
I see a lot of potential for tickets, or for positions like guards or drivers to misrepresent themselves and disrupt, or aid in the caravan being robbed or seized by bandits. For example, say I, as a secretly evil character who has never been involved in a caravan before, pack my wagon with X number of hidden cronies and book a place in a caravan. Then once the caravan reaches a hex without NPC guards, we all spring out and attack? Short of the leader inspecting everyone prior to departure I can't see how this could be prevented. Inspecting each vehicle seems like it would take some time, and if the bandits entered the wagon at a planned stop instead of at the Initial stable of departure, the leader would have to inspect each vehicle at each stop..?
Lets say a player who is not part of a caravan rides up to a caravan and begins following it off to one side, gaining the benefits of traveling with the caravan for free. They won't leave nor will they pay a ticket fee. How would the caravan system handle this without attacking the player and receiving a criminal flag, alignment hit etc..?
I'm not trying to knock the concept at all. It's a great point to begin detailing how caravans function, and that's something that will have to be worked out anyway. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Being as we aren't certain how warehouses function, do you envision these warehouses to be identical in cost, function as a typical warehouse built within a settlement, and would the same permission(s) be available to these as to a settlement warehouse?
It could go either way. They could be normal warehouses or special warehouses purely for transport good delivery/pick-up. Not married to either concept other than that the ones attached to work camps shod have the option to diump harvested/produced goods directly into them.
Shouldn't there be a timer that counts down if a member of a settlement ventures too far from the caravan? Many things could cause someone to become separated from a caravan temporarily. If they rejoin the caravan before the timer counts down, it seems like there's no harm nor foul?
Sure this could work. I would make it so the length of time can be adjusted in the contract just like the distance in meters.
You mention an alignment hit and reputation hit if someone leaves their spot in a caravan. How would that work in the case that someone goes LD, or gets kicked offline? When they return would they return with the caravan or at the point they lost connection?
You could have some kind of follow mechanic kick in. Also they only lose alignment if the caravan leader levels a complaint. So the caravan leader may just ask some guards to hang back and not level a complaint with any of you if it's someone you have a good working-relationship with.
Regarding inspections. I believe someone mentioned, during an interview, that there would be no impediments to someone traveling via the main roadway system that aren't ambushes or assaults, how do inspections not fall within this realm?
Hopefully they are reasonable enough to make an exception to that statement if they like the inspection system.
Collecting a toll by blocking a roadway seems (to me) like an act of extortion. I wonder how others view this?
Toll booths are extortion then. Remember this can only be used by the owner of a hex, and there is a limit on how much they are allowed to toll. They may or may not have built the road you are traveling on, but they certainly own it.
How will caravan members tell the difference between an inspection and a act of banditry unless they wait until the approaching group reaches them and initiates an attack? It seems like an easy way for bandits to get in position before attacking a caravan if its members cannot act until they are threatened or assaulted?
They won't. I wrote this kind of assuming people could see your alignment displayed above your head which this question made me realize MAY not be the case. You could make it so that only uniformed members of the group that controls the hex can start a lawful inspection and uniforms DO make their alignment show above their heads.
At that point I'm going to steer clear / fight back agains un-uniformed rabble and anyone with an evil alignment over their heads unless I would rather get robbed than chance getting killed.
I would think that the speed which a caravan leader and driver are able to maintain would be based on skill. But how would that be relayed to potential passengers or merchants? Perhaps a screen accessed by /look-ing at the caravan?
Sure. It could be listed in the same menu as price, speed rating, safety rating, and satisfaction rating.
Would the complaints you mention go into a characters reputation, or would they be shown on a different screen?
Perhaps both. They would certainly be displayed to the other person somewhere on the contract creation menu.
I see a lot of potential for tickets, or for positions like guards or drivers to misrepresent themselves and disrupt, or aid in the caravan being robbed or seized by bandits. For example, say I, as a secretly evil character who has never been involved in a caravan before, pack my wagon with X number of hidden cronies and book a place in a caravan. Then once the caravan reaches a hex without NPC guards, we all spring out and attack? Short of the leader inspecting everyone prior to departure I can't see how this could be prevented. Inspecting each vehicle seems like it would take some time, and if the bandits entered the wagon at a planned stop instead of at the Initial stable of departure, the leader would have to inspect each vehicle at each stop..?
Only characters who have made a contract with the caravan leader are allowed to board as passengers so your buddies would be stow-aways. Any of the other guards might notice them slipping aboard or catch them if they take the time to search the carts during the stop. If all the guards are in on it then the caravan leader really wasn't thinking when he brought in a whole crew of fresh guards without a high reputation. Of this was slipped under the nose of the trusted/loyal guards or you got them to betray the caravan leader... good job. You have earned your spoils.
Lets say a player who is not part of a caravan rides up to a caravan and begins following it off to one side, gaining the benefits of traveling with the caravan for free. They won't leave nor will they pay a ticket fee. How would the caravan system handle this without attacking the player and receiving a criminal flag, alignment hit etc..?
I assume you mean a fast travel bonus? Well if caravans have a bonus this is actually really simple. Every member of a caravan is under a guard, driver, passenger, or caravan leader contract. No contract, no bonus.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Being the trader I am I like there being so many different beings involved in this contract system. ( I'm really sorry :P I had to... ) Nore roles means more people involved means more different skills. Me likey.
There are some details i will flesh out a bit later that bother me a bit but overall good work boss :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have to say this is a very well thought out plan that can offer a lot of opportunities for role play/ pve/pvp. It does fit what GW wants Pathfinder main focus to be that is 'to maximize player interaction.' It makes me want to be a caravan guard and I am one of those pvp who me never players.
well done +1 approval rating from a future caravan guard.
:walks away for a bite at the inn as she makes note to check under all the tarps after the tavern lunch break.:
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Goblin Squad Member
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I see a lot of potential for tickets, or for positions like guards or drivers to misrepresent themselves and disrupt, or aid in the caravan being robbed or seized by bandits. For example, say I, as a secretly evil character who has never been involved in a caravan before, pack my wagon with X number of hidden cronies and book a place in a caravan. Then once the caravan reaches a hex without NPC guards, we all spring out and attack? Short of the leader inspecting everyone prior to departure I can't see how this could be prevented. Inspecting each vehicle seems like it would take some time, and if the bandits entered the wagon at a planned stop instead of at the Initial stable of departure, the leader would have to inspect each vehicle at each stop..?Only characters who have made a contract with the caravan leader are allowed to board as passengers so your buddies would be stow-aways. Any of the other guards might notice them slipping aboard or catch them if they take the time to search the carts during the stop. If all the guards are in on it then the caravan leader really wasn't thinking when he brought in a whole crew of fresh guards without a high reputation. Of this was slipped under the nose of the trusted/loyal guards or you got them to betray the caravan leader... good job. You have earned your spoils.
This is the best part. I can see experienced, known bandits using this as an initiation for new members. A big public hit of faction and alignment makes them much less likely to be moles ... The proposed system seems to have something for everyone.