Proposed Cleric Archetype


Homebrew and House Rules

Sczarni

I've been thinking about this one for a while.

The Paragon
While most clerics are well-versed in divine magic, the Paragon forsakes all magic but that which most embodies her deity's portfolio.

Domains: A Paragon chooses three domains instead of the usual two.

Spontaneous Casting: In addition to casting Cure or Inflict spells spontaneously, a Paragon may also spontaneously cast her domain spells. This is the only way a Paragon can cast spells-- she does not prepare spells like normal clerics. She still regains all her spell slots after eight hours of rest, and treats her domain spells and her choice of Cure or Inflict spells as her list of spells known. A Paragon does not gain additional spells known for having a high Wisdom and can not take the Expanded Arcana feat to gain new spells known.

Thoughts?


You better pick the right domains from the start, cause you're screwed if you don't. The entire allure of prepared casters is having the pick of so many spells. Spontaneous is great, but as a player I wouldn't choose this.

Sczarni

Might be better off adjusting an oracle...


I would rather just pick 3 Domains and give them diminished Spell Casting & allow them to prepare their Domain Spells as if they were on the Cleric Spell Slot.

Sczarni

So now you're letting them get an additional domain slot in exchange for limited spell selection, but you've also turned them from pre-pared casters into a spontaneous caster.

But you've given them an additional two domain abilities...

and you've restricted them to cure spells, and three other spells.

Now we look at oracles, they know more then that... they cast more then that, and they get more abilities then that...

What's the point of this archetype? Other than to probably min/max three domains together?

Dark Archive

Silent Saturn wrote:

I've been thinking about this one for a while.

The Paragon
While most clerics are well-versed in divine magic, the Paragon forsakes all magic but that which most embodies her deity's portfolio.

Domains: A Paragon chooses three domains instead of the usual two.

Spontaneous Casting: In addition to casting Cure or Inflict spells spontaneously, a Paragon may also spontaneously cast her domain spells. This is the only way a Paragon can cast spells-- she does not prepare spells like normal clerics. She still regains all her spell slots after eight hours of rest, and treats her domain spells and her choice of Cure or Inflict spells as her list of spells known. A Paragon does not gain additional spells known for having a high Wisdom and can not take the Expanded Arcana feat to gain new spells known.

Thoughts?

I'd give them spontaneous access to all four (or five) of their god's domain choices, plus either cure or inflicts.

And I'd totally allow Expanded Arcana. Limiting the 'cleric' to roughly five or six spells known per level of spells (and not even their *choice* of those spells) is a huge downgrade, and Expanded Arcana isn't exactly a crazy awesome feat (and might be almost necessary, to pick up 'must have' spells that don't appear on many domain lists, like breath of life or something from the restoration ouvre).

Sczarni

First read this Theologian

Now consider what you're doing, giving up ability to pick any spell, and increasing domain abilities.

I'd require you to worship a deity, be of the same alignment of the deity,.

From there you could just say like Set did that you can get "all the domain spells available to the domains of the patron deity" to spontaneously cast.

I would then find some way of not increasing the number of domain powers, such as at first level select two domain powers to use. then at lvl 6 select two of any domains available to your diety to use. (if it's not available until 8 you must wait until lvl 8 to use it)


I meant to say mine lost their domain spell slot and would have the Diminished Spellcasting feature.

I have a Priest Archetype that is currently in v1.3 of its variation...


Since they're so limited, allow them to use domains at a higher level like +1 CL to two domains or a +2 CL to one. Maybe even allow these +CL to affect when you gain the higher tier ability. It may seem OP to gain some spells a level or two early, but this class seems very limited by lacking spells and somewhat one trick pony like.

Grand Lodge

Ciaran Barnes wrote:
You better pick the right domains from the start, cause you're screwed if you don't. The entire allure of prepared casters is having the pick of so many spells. Spontaneous is great, but as a player I wouldn't choose this.

I wouldn't take this class even if I could pick any three domains I wanted. Way too much of a one trick casting pony for my taste. Also way too much of an overhaul for a cleric, not enough diversity for an oracle.

Sczarni

oh I agree lazarx, I've said as much already.

Why anyone would want to do this archetype over an oracle is beyond belief, unless there was some crazy three domain ability combination that was just too good... and then it'd be for dips probably.


Some classes had archetypes that were a big overhaul to the class and they became alternate classes. I do agree that this will become a one trick pony based directly on the domains you take though and requires more balancing.

I do like the idea of a paragon. A perfect emulation of your god almost like a mortal avatar. Would be proficient only with the deities weapon, have the same alignment as the god, gain use of more domains over other clerics, have reduced spell casting and maybe lose channel or a few d6 from channel to compensate the extra domain, and extend spontaneous casting to the domain spells.

Maybe give them weapon focus/specialization with the deities weapon for free and treat their cleric levels as fighter levels for qualifying For feats or something like the magus' Fighter Training class ability.

Sczarni

The intended purposes of this archetype are:

1. I've seen quite a few players who are just plain allergic to prepared spellcasting--they think it's dumb and they won't play any class that uses it. Oracles may use the Cleric spell list, but they're not Clerics in a lot of ways.
2. A thought experiment-- most Cleric archetype trades away one or both domains. What would an archetype have to give up to get an extra one?

Several of you have suggested that there's some domain ability combo that I'm just trying to make legal because it requires three domains. I don't know of one, but I sympathize with your suspicion-- my biggest reservation about this archetype is the possible existence of such a combo.

The biggest reason I can think of to play a Paragon would be if you liked the idea of a "white knight" who can take the front line like a fighter but still has Cure and a few other spells up his sleeve.

And lantzkev, thanks for the link! The Theologian doesn't really serve the same purposes as I had in mind, but it is interesting.


Silent Saturn wrote:

The biggest reason I can think of to play a Paragon would be if you liked the idea of a "white knight" who can take the front line like a fighter but still has Cure and a few other spells up his sleeve.

You've just described a paladin.

Paragon is used figuratively to mean a model of excellence or perfection. I thought you were going for an emulation of your deity with this.

Sczarni

Khrysaor wrote:
Silent Saturn wrote:

The biggest reason I can think of to play a Paragon would be if you liked the idea of a "white knight" who can take the front line like a fighter but still has Cure and a few other spells up his sleeve.

You've just described a paladin.

Paragon is used figuratively to mean a model of excellence or perfection. I thought you were going for an emulation of your deity with this.

Paladins are prepared casters. Also they don't get spells until level 4, unless you count Lay on Hands as a spell. Plus the alignment issues.

I admit, I started with the mechanics and struggled a bit to explain the flavor. I'd say flavor-wise, the Paragon is trying to connect with his or her deity by following the deity's portfolio as closely as possible. An "emulation of your deity" would be an appropriate image.

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