Alright, I'm more curious than anything. There is a player in our group who is playing a character that loses his temper quite often and gets into fights / fist fights and half of the time it's with another player's character. Annoying, but I can get past that... until recently.
He's playing an ex-bandit half-orc melee rogue brute type and we've captured Kressle. Another character did a small interrogation (I think) and apparently made a deal that she could join us, help kill bandits and things and possibly earn leniency or freedom.
Now, my character is against this because she seems to be a psycho axe murdering bandit and doesn't trust her. The problem was furthered when the rogue mentioned above, decided he wanted to take her as his prize/woman and essentially insists that she be given her axes full time and be given near full freedoms. If we don't agree he starts his time consuming fights. He's lost most of those fights, but it's starting to get irritating. If not just for the fact that most of our game time is spent in inner party conflict.
So, really my question boils down to this I guess. Should I just shrug it off and let Kressle run rampant and ignore the rogues barking to relieve some of the in group pressure? I suppose I could do this while maintaining the mistrust. After all, we've just captured her not 12 hours before and now I'm expected to give her full leave to do as she pleases?
How would you approach this? It seems my DM is ok with the inner party conflict (he's let it go thus far, and has even laughed at some situations) and I don't want to leave the game. They are all friends.
NOTE: If it makes a difference we're all level 1 and I'm playing a neutral wood wizard. If possible, please keep spoilers to a minimum. Thanks.
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It is part of the game that goes on, though usually this doesn't escalate within a party. Have a talk outside the game to gain clarity about where the conflict is going on, so it does not get spilled over into RL or disrupt gameplay on a personal level.
In my Kingmaker game, Kesten is the Marshall, and hates Akiros for just this reason. He feels that Akiros should be treated like just what he is, a bandit. Instead, he was given his freedom, and later the queen character (same one that recruited Kesten early on) made him her cohort. There is a huge jealously/feeling unappreciated/resentment going on now between the two of them, and they have had fought publicly, including a brawl outside a tavern. It will be interesting to see what the party does with this, if anything. I suspect the queen is leaning towards making Kesten her first baron sometime as the kingdom grows. Presently however, this is a perfect place for an enemy to very cunningly drive a wedge or gain an informant inside the council. Perhaps a love interest/spy for Kesten?
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Do the others not realize what Oleg & Svetlana (much less others who lie rotting dead in some ditch) have suffered at the hands of Kressle and her band? While the player may be role-playing his ex-bandit role, it's like a reformed convict who went in for stealing a loaf of bread being chummy with a sociopathic murderer when it comes to Kressle.
If you're inclined to play this one out, I'd delve into why she's being given weapons and trusted against the advice of a friend (fellow PC).
As for inter-party conflict, that's generally a losing formula for successful groups and even moreso when not everyone is best friends. I'd address it pre-game (that we seem to be doing more fighting amongst ourselves than actual adventuring...) Trying to address it via characters never works.
In the wild west of the US, many new lawmen were reformed (or retired) criminals, murderers and hired killers.
It's ironic I know. but it all depends on your state of mind and the motivations for the 'bad guy' doing what they did.
Thanks for the advice everyone. I think I'll try to play it out a bit, see what exactly the one character promised Kressle in order for her to help us, what he learned from her and make it understood that I don't trust her.
Chances are Kressle will screw one of us over, if that's the case, then at least I wasn't one of the ones helping her and maybe we can still get through it and learn from it.
@Touc & Redcelt - If it comes to a point where I feel it's getting really out of hand, I'll definitely talk about it out of game.
@Pendagast - Very true. An interesting mind set and I may eventually grow my character to think that way, however for now it's hard to justify trusting someone that would probably happily kill you if they had the chance.
I agree, Kressle very nearly TPKd us. Infact the campaign was over except for the fact that the monk/cleric had stabilized out in the woods and kressles men couldnt find him. So they just left him out there to die.
The monk/cleric eventually came to, spent a night in the forest praying. got new spells, snuck in under cover of dark and healed two unconscious party members that were captured and they snuck out.
Two other players had to roll new characters and the party had to return with clubs and daggers and a new plan (they didn't have any stuff, except for what they new characters had)
It was rough, eventually having two rogues in the party and excessive sneak attack won the day.
In our KM. kressle dies. the second time around...
Wow, sounds rough. I might be inclined to say that you have a better world because she died. With her alive (and with a party), well, I guess I'll just have to wait and see.
Oh my wife wasnt about to let her live, she almost had her the first time...some dice didnt go her way... If not for being able to throw those axes, my wife wouldn't have gone down.... It was the range that got her.
My wife was a rogue scout.
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@Pedagast- you know its funny, there is a female ruler in our game, and she went after Kressle and ended up coup de grace'ing her while she was stunned. Female adventurers are ruthless to other female NPCs LOL...even tho she had never met Kressle, she hated her from the word go.
@Third Mind-if nothing else, you can get a feel for how your GM is going to play treacherous characters...or redeemed characters depending on how it goes. From reading the boards, I have heard stories of everyone but the Stag Lord being redeemed. Worse case, the players as a whole begin to get the idea that lots of people don't mind being treacherous and duplicitous in Kingmaker.
@Touc - very good point about Svetlana and Oleg. Depending on how "realistic", story driven, and political your GM makes this AP, how key NPCs feel about things can have kingdom shaking impacts on the game. Some of the games described here are not as personality intensive, but most of them care a great deal about NPC reactions. In particular, I would pay close attention to any NPCs on your council Third Mind (once you get a council that is).
In mine, my group was kill everything that moves if it has a weapon kill it. I rewrote Kressel as a "victim of circumstance" and not evil to the core. Shes certainly not "good" but she's become a very valued member of the kingdom. She currently works as royal executioner and the party still fears her in many ways. (she almost TPKed the group twice)
I'm rather curious at character's, and player's, reason for paroling Kressle. As written, she threatened to cut off Oleg's hand, gang-rape Svetlana, and then took her wedding ring. Your character doesn't just think she is psycho axe murdering bandit. She is a sadistic psycho axe murdering bandit.
Deal for freedom? Remember your charter, "The punishment for unrepentant banditry remains, as always, execution by sword or rope." Is there anything about her behavior that fits repentant? If not, you're violating your contract. Remind the rogue of this. Doesn't care? Remind him that offending your bosses is a good way to end up with no money and no kingdom. Also, no head.
If the rogue keeps fighting, and losing. Point out to him, in character, that he is being an idiot and that the rest of the group doesn't agree with him, obviously. Why does his opinion out-weight the others?
Finally, if she really has to go, talk to the DM about it and get Kesten involved. Regardless of what the party thinks, they don't have the authority to pardon, and don't have authority over the trading post at all. Kesten has probably heard from the Levetons about what has happened. He recognizes Kressle by description, confirms with Svetlana, and promptly arrests/executes her.
You made a deal? Irrelevant. She committed banditry and threatened vile acts against subjects of the realm and the people that he is now living with. She deserves death.
You claimed her? See above.
You want to fight? 3rd level fighter will crush the rogue. Also, he has back up in the form of guards and a cleric of the LG god of family, community, and bandits-are-scum-that-deserve-death. Also, you have now assaulted a captain of the guard who is a noble. A disgraced noble, but noble nonetheless. You, former bandit scum, are not. No one at the trading post likes her, and none of them have any reason to forgive her.
You don't have to go with any of these, but it is something to consider. Unless her nature is changed, it seems very odd that any good or neutral characters would spare her life, let alone give her weapons. Even evil characters don't like axe-murders and probably want to stay on the Leveton's good side.
In my group, the paladin took up a "one on one" deal that Kressle suggested, when she was outnumbered after het pawns where slain.
They fought well, both of them, but when she was down to a few HP she surrendered and drank out of her flask to get the blood out of her mouth. (and also made her recover 1d8+1 HP ^^).
She then abused the moment where the Paladin, after giving his speech about redemption (Sarenrae ftw!) to plant her axe right in his armpit, through the armor and knocking the paladin out.
The sorceress who was now standing too close without her paladin-friend was the second to receive a very nice axe-to-face, after which the monk came running and knocked her off her socks.
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It was not that hard for the fighter to declare her "unrepentant" after this! :D
Hah. "If it has a weapon, kill it?" My River Kingdoms are a hard, hard place. Being armed at all times in all places is the unspoken rule. When you see a stranger on the road ahead, you give him a polite nod and a pat on your hilt before you pass each other and move on with your lives. The people you trust the least are the ones who don't bear arms.
Kressle was one of the few NPCs my group didn't try to diplomance... the other being the Stag Lord and his gang. She was hardly a threat in my game, though - she crit-fumbled on her second round, knocked herself out with her own axe, and got CDG'ed by Oracle-mace-to-da-face in the third.
This is where I pass a note to the DM that I'm keeping an eye on her no matter what and maybe bringing it to a party vote about tying her up at night.
Sounds like what my group's Spymistress is doing with Ayles Mengleson, the torturer from the Stag Lord's. He was one of the bunch that survived to surrender and got dumped back at Oleg's to be watched over and possibly rehabilitated by Kesten (a job he dislikes), and the least repentant of the bunch. She recently discovered that he has a warrant out for him from one of the other kingdoms (not the group's sponsoring country, but another) and is in negotiations along with the NPC kingdom Diplomat to get the guy turned over and curry some favor with this other country. Only the Ruler knows what she's up to; the General and Magister "adopted" all the bandits who survived and had the sense to surrender, and would likely get ticked to see one of them being turned over to outside law.
Just curious what a neutral wood wizard does...
On a more serious note: the important thing here is, that what the charter mentions is all fine and golden, but in the end you as group and law enforcer have to decide what to do with her.
At this stage, it's justified to not trust her at all for sure.
Do you know the terms the "interrogator" set for her to join you?
Do you know the motive for the rogue to keep her?
When the PCs finally got to the Staglord's fort, she was barely alive and catatonic due to the atrocities she had suffered at the hands of the other bandits.
Meanwhile, Akiros had taken to her and vouched for her when the fight was over - he being repentant himself. She stood trial in Restov and was given to the redeemed pally to watch her; as of today, they are married and serve as general and spymaster. Both are well-liked citizens and established councillors.
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Everything Lloyd said regarding Kessle. On a different note:
If anyone disagrees with the rogue, the rogue attacks them? Why in the world would your party keep him around?
It sounds like this player has created a character that doesn't work well in a group. That's a recipe for disaster. Kessle isn't the problem - the rogue is the problem. Your game needs to get that resolved.
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I'll seconf that sentiment from DMFTodd
When the rogue was fighting another party member whom I had given Kressle's axes to (he was trying to get her axes back by force), I went out and talked to Kresten myself. He (the DM I know) said that the party had taken responsibility for her and that was good enough for him. He did come in and warn Kressle that if she did something again she'd be in a dungeon, but that was a weak threat even to me. In the end though, it seems the DM is content with having Kressle in the group, if not for the future torment it may provide.
I will definitely make it a point to ask the one that interrogated all that was said. After all, I'd like to know why they feel she wouldn't try anything against us now. Perhaps they are being blindly good in this situation, trying to see her as repentant. I don't know, but I will find out if at all possible.
As for the rogue goes, I agree. I may have exaggerated though so I'll put up what's happened so far. Thus far he's struck our group ranger (who is actually one of the only true good and sane characters that I can tell) because the ranger made a comment about him.
He then did the attack that I mentioned above, against our fighter (I believe) and 2 soldiers that were in the room, taking a knife to one of the soldiers. Everywhere else he's playing the rude type. Been very useful in battle but otherwise... well... ^ That.
I'm trying to think of a good way to deal with the rogue in game, because everyone else in the group seems fine with the rogue going around doing his thing or at least hasn't said anything.
I will indeed make the DM know for sure that I won't be trusting Kressle and will be watching her at nearly all waking hours. So far she hasn't done much, except make a bet with the rogue on how many kobolds they'd each kill. We've put her on 2nd watch with the ranger, trying to make sure that she's being watched at least somewhat.
My character especially hates Kressle as she punched him in the face (he sold one of her axes). So, after retrieving the axe trying to do as the party asked, he said she wouldn't get them back without earning them. When she tried to punch me again, I let off a readied color spray and she fell unconscious. Perhaps I should leave her with a threat that the next time she won't wake up. However, I get the feeling this would just agitate her even more.
Anyways, thanks everyone for the input.
Wait, he tried to knife a soldier? Why is he not dead yet?
Kressle attacked you and you let it slide?
I guess if the group is having fun...
@ Lloyd - Yeah, I thought the attack on the soldier would have gotten at least a small punishment, but "Kesten" said that we were protected by the crown or something like that so he couldn't do anything.
As for her attacking me, I had thought about killing her while she was unconscious, but then I expected that the one that did interrogating as well as the rogue would come after me, especially when they had just made their deal.
Yeah, I guess I'll figure something out. If he threatens or strikes me, I may just have to warn him that if a time came to help him, I may not be there for him.
Anyways, thanks again.
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Hopefully your GM will help this move along. While I do enjoy from time-to-time PC vs PC dilemmas (but never PvP combat), it causes a rift if allowed to persist. Despite what people say and do, I think a little bit of personality leaks into the game. Sore feelings can result if a game situation goes sour.
Can't believe a sociopathic NPC punched you and the rest of the group didn't string her up. Where's the comradery?
Camaraderie is barely there ha ha. Most of us have all been playing what we thought a group of people being shoved into a group not a week ago would be. We trust each others skill and do fairly well in battle together, but when it comes to opinions, decisions and NPCs is when things go to hell.
I agree, I hope the DM helps here in some way and doesn't just continue to giggle at our silly rogue punching us for another arbitrary reason.
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@ the OP: Unfortunately, this is not a GM driven AP. This AP is driven by the players and what they want to do. Your GM should be responding to your goals and actions, but not leading you along anywhere. This sort of means it is up to the players to fix things along the way.
Obviously, it depends on how hardcore you want to be, but...
Bottom line is your charter says you are free to kill unrepentant bandits. Whether they are unrepentant or not is up to the party, or in this case any of you who want to make a judgement.
Some info is missing however from this scenario that might help us out-
Who is the future ruler/leader of your group? (ie - LG paladin, NE sorcerer, etc). How do they feel about Kressle?
What alignment is the party and what alignment are you?
Pro for killing Kressle - I suggest dealing with problems now rather than later. Anything "not good" when the kingdom is teeny tiny becomes a nightmare when you expand it to 50 hexes and add armies. Think how much worse Kressle might be if you give her a spy network and many BP to play with and you have a whole kingdom full of resources at her disposal. Or give her several armies to command?
Con for killing Kressle - I suggest making her the responsibility of the rogue. She messes up, they both answer for it. Require him to marry her if he wants to save her. This way you get some committment out of both of them and direct some of their nuisance factor at each other. If they gang up on the party, well you were screwed anyway.
But, the game is about building a new life and a new country, and unlike many other characters, these are expected to settle down and start families, make roots, etc. So perhaps the rogue is just starting early. If you view some of the other synopsis on the forums here, this is not unusual. One game had the ruler seduce Svetlana and when she was kicked out by an angry Oleg for fooling around, he married her and made her his queen. I suspect your GM will get a kick out of the arranged marriage thing and give the rogue lots to deal with.
- Here is the bottom line...this game more than any other really demands that the party be united. Yes you can squabble, but having fundamental differences and not trusting other members means someone should generate new characters until that happens. Obviously you can run the game without this trust, but personally I would never play in this AP without it.
Just my 2 cents...
@Redcelt - You make some really good points and advice. I will definitely use some of it.
As for what might help, there are 2 vying for the ruler spot, a seemingly lawful evil sorcerer (can't quite tell, he smiles at torture and confrontations) and a what seems to be a good fighter (aasimer muse-touched, the one that did the interrogating and made the deal in the first place). I myself am neutral and looking to pick up the magister position. Rogue definitely feels at least chaotic if not a form of evil. Ranger feels neutral good or some other kind of good.
Oddly the the sorcerer who's evil doesn't seem to think Kressle is a good idea, obviously the rogue and fighter do and I haven't quite gaged the ranger quite yet. The ranger seems the type to just go with the flow and help here and there.
I like your idea of appointing the rogue responsibility for Kressle. If I find the right spot to do so, I will definitely use it. Although, I'm not sure that will matter much to him.
I also agree that the DM role is to make things keep going more than guide, but I also feel that he was extremely lenient in the case of Kesten and the fight. The punishment was to have us leave Olegs a while to cool off. Which was actually great, because we actually got to do some exploring.
I don't think I'll get the chance to kill her unless she blatantly betrays us in a relatively big way. Such as helping the stag lord when we go after him, or killing a player in the middle of the night.
As far as re-rolling characters, if I were to die, I'd happily do it. Though I do enjoy the wizard I'm playing right now, I may roll up a synth summoner to help in front lines or another more concentrated wizard. Not sure if the other player would be willing to re-roll or not.
Anyways, some very good advice, thank you.
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I also agree that the DM role is to make things keep going more than guide, but I also feel that he was extremely lenient in the case of Kesten and the fight. The punishment was to have us leave Olegs a while to cool off. Which was actually great, because we actually got to do some exploring.
I agree it is hard if some of the NPCs are not as cooperative as they could be. Everyone who runs this AP has their own spin on the personalities of the NPCs given, so there is no telling how your GM envisions Kesten.
I try to make sure my NPCs don't trump or overshadow the party, in particular the ones that are likely allies. So I gave Kesten a more backup/loyal follower type persona. Mainly this was so they would trust him to guard Oleg's and feel safe to explore the rest of the Stolen Lands.
My party was half noble born and half commoner adventurers when they started. When Kesten arrived, he was friendly and worked with the nobles. Once they started doing well, he jumped on board and was an eager ally in the fight against bandits. Being a Brevic noble, he tends to come down on the side of hanging bandits as an example. After all there are plenty of peasants and commoners already, why do we need to try to redeem bandits on the off chance they stay straight and become...another commoner? Maybe your GM will consider this argument for Kesten's motivations.
Third... so I cant recall if you have stated what class your character is... is Kressle adventuring with you?
Like an NPC in Tow?
If she is... who heals her? you?
Who is keeping up with the NPCs character sheet the DM?
This is what I'm getting at.
Fog of war.
Next big battle she takes some decent damage...KNOCK HER off....aww man! poor kressle! The Sand fleas must have gotten her, how DID they rip off her head like that?
Problem solved...
IF the Rogue gives you issues.... look man that wasn't my fault...but keep it up buddy, the sand fleas are coming for you next!
Next big battle she takes some decent damage...KNOCK HER off....aww man! poor kressle! The Sand fleas must have gotten her, how DID they rip off her head like that?
The Stolen Lands are dangerous place indeed!
I'm trying to think of a good way to deal with the rogue in game
Always have charm person or similar (and later more powerful) spell ready, I'd say.
@Pendagast - I'm playing a wizard and yeah Kressle is with us. We don't have a dedicated healer, at least not one that's shown themselves thus far.
I like that idea, if the opportunity rises for Kressle to have an accident, I may just do it.
@RuyanVe - Very true. I always have it prepared being a Wood School Wizard, so that could ease things if just for a bit. Not sure how'd he react after it wears off but, there's only one way of finding out.
@Pendagast - I'm playing a wizard and yeah Kressle is with us. We don't have a dedicated healer, at least not one that's shown themselves thus far.
I like that idea, if the opportunity rises for Kressle to have an accident, I may just do it.
@RuyanVe - Very true. I always have it prepared being a Wood School Wizard, so that could ease things if just for a bit. Not sure how'd he react after it wears off but, there's only one way of finding out.
Wizard?? what level.... nice AOEs?? ahahahah no kressle don't! oh man she got in the radius of that fire ball.......
Or if you dont have that yet, is there anyway to tell exactly where that swarm was going to go?
Ive seen people accidentally run over by summoned monsters too (aurochs)
can someone actually tell if a monster is summoned?
Have something random charge in from out of the bushes, something that has been in the area and no reason to question its existence.... OM NOM NOM on kressle and then flee into the under brush.... dude where DID that random wandering monster come from? Why did it run off?
Wizard: I cast fear on it.
Party member: Good thinking wizard.
Wizard: Im there for ya bud.
Killing her in game is only going to escalate things. I can guarantee he'll attack you (eventually) and this party will self-destruct. Your best bet is to talk to the player and ask him to tone it down a bit.
but how does the rogue KNOW someone in the party killed her in game?
The rogue won't, but the rogue's player will. And hell, if you're lobbing fireballs intentionally at an NPC, it's going to be freaking obvious.
This kind of stuff is better handled outside of the game, talking to each other like adults. Not petty in-game solutions like you're 13. Tell the rogue he's being a c&%+ (in a nicer way than I just did ;) ), and to tone it down a bit.
Wait, Out of game WHO gives a dang about Kressle? I mean seriously, the rogue picked up an NPC, whhheeee...
this is totally an in game issue. The Character knows Kressles history, doesn't feel comfortable about it, thinks the lady is going to slight his throat in the night... blah blah blah.
If the character didn't feel this way there wouldn't be an issue at all.
There are tons of ways to plan someones demise IN game without someone else knowing it. So what there is some way for the player to find out? I suppose.
I have Totally seen people get caught in AoEs before unintentionally, my friend literally ran over my wife's barbarian with a stampede of summoned aurochs by total accident (they got out of his range of control...like really fast in single move)
So those were REAL accidents....staging an assassination to look like an accident isn't really that hard.
Some how telling someone to their face you want them to change how they behave and what they are doing is "grown up and civilized" but plotting the doom of the NPC you wanted dead in the first place is all teen-agery? I'm not following this.
Why should the player of the wizard say "dude I don't like the way you are playing....do it my way"
Instead just react to the situation in game.
Kressle doesn't belong to the other PC, he has no investment, it's not from the result of a leadership feat, it's not an animal companion...there is no direct attack on the PC.
It's ok to kill Kressle last session when she wasn't an enemy, but now she's suddenly an ally?
Yea maybe the rogue is ok with that (would be hilarious if she backstabbed him and made off with his loot) But the wizard isn't.
Again out of game who really cares what rogues gallery this guy collects as an entourage?
I'm actually talking more about the Rogue's disruptive behavior. This NPC issue is only a symptom. Given the description of the player, I feel like killing the NPC will set off something that could cause the party to lose the rogue player or worse, ruin the game. It's something I've seen while GMing so I'd rather warn him against it. The rogue has already shown he's not afraid of attacking other NPCs or even party members for the littlest of slights.
And it's not the wizard saying "Hey, play my way. I don't like your way!". It's just simply asking him to tone down the inner party fighting. There's nothing wrong with inner party conflict, but when it begins to dominate over the game, that becomes poisonous to the game. I don't think anyone comes to play Pathfinder to have long debates with each other for the majority of the session. That doesn't sound fun for anyone and rereading the OP's first post, that is clearly the underlying issue. It's easier to shell this out with the group and try to come to an agreeable amount of inner party conflict, then deal with Kessle.
For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure she'll betray you, so I advice keeping a close eye on her. But for now, she's an ally and killing her "accidentally" might give the rogue leverage over you. He could say that you are willing to cast on allies and can't be trusted (which would be kinda hypocritical given how he behaves).
ok so what about the myriad of ways Kressle could die? Kingmaker at that level is really deadly? She could get annihilated by a shambling mound, trolls or any manner of deadly things, so are you saying that even if the DM kills her naturally this guy will have a rampaging fit?
And your worried about the party losing the rogue in this instance? Good riddance.
There's a difference between an NPC dying to wildlife and a PC fireballing her to death. And honestly, no point in losing friends over a game.
Hmm you guys seem to be at an enpasse maybe I can translate
-Pendagast's point: Its an in character problem, presumably everyone at the table is mature enough to deal with it in character and not metagame as the wizard character takes care of the in character problem.
-Odraude's point: Unfortunately, the problem may very well be out of game as the player's playstyle is apparently somewhat intentionally obtuse and disruptive, approach out of character as a friend and try and talk thru it. A game is a game the out of character stuff is more important.
-Solspiral's point: You're both reading into the problem without being present and filling in details that match with assumptions you've both made likely shaped by very different gaming histories/experiences. Agree to disagree, Third Mind will make his own choices and seems to be in accord more with Pendagast's solution.
The long debates over the majority of the session have been some of my favorite moments in kingmaker so far.
However, I would advice telling the rogue to knock it off. Choosing to play a character who is a dick to the rest of the party is an out of character choice.
We are hearing one side of the story according to Third Mind at least a few other characters are chill with the rogue's decision. My real concern is the DM here, the group isn't gelling which makes me think they didn't discuss their characters before starting game, beyond I got rogue steve'll be cleric, Jane's got Wizard.
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Choosing to play a character who is a dick to the rest of the party is an out of character choice.
Kapow! Also reference players who play CN to justify any a***ole action that they take towards the party, NPCs, the GM, and anyone else. Just playing my character, nothing personal.
Back on track, good luck if you try to solve this "in character" by trying to Charm Kressle into turning herself into authorities, etc. After years of gaming, I've done away with inviting to the table people like the rogue who are asses to other players in the name of the game or persistently take actions to disrupt others. For us, unless there's charm magic involved, no one rolls dice against another player.
Well I think the OP and the DM could work together out of game, there would be some very REASONABLE ways to hide an NPC mark.
It's INSANELY hard to just declare it over the table. Otherwise everyone knows.
IF everyone doesn't care, then there is no issue.
If the wizard is involved with summoning/charming the monster that munches on kressle its not different than the DM doing it. The rogue couldnt necessarily tell the difference.
The result is kressle is dead and the wizard is appeased by being part of it.
so the rogue is pissed.... HOW does he KNOW (the player OR the character) that the wizard did it? So if he's STILL pissed and having a tantrum then the only conclusion to come to is he will not accept the fact that it's possible kressle could die (by any means). Waving around, shouting thats not fair, attacking other PCs who might be laughing about it.... whatever man, if that's the case then the whole dude needs to go.
IF he's playing some kind of role that is just doing this... then an 'apparent' accident, narrated by the DM isn't going to spark any problems as, it's an in character issue. If it's an OoC issue then he's just a table bully.
I remember fondly conspiring with the rogue to kidnap the wizards familiar because it was a raven, and the player kept making him sound like Iago from aladdin. It was maddening, so we bagged the raven up after buying a stuffed one in town, the rogue puts an arrow through this stuffed bird during a combat as I bagged the real raven up, then the rogue tosses the raven over the wizards shoulder.
The DM describes you sense your familiar is in distress, then describes the bird falling to the ground with an arrow in it (the wizard had a terrible perception). the player starts freaking out.
the Dm continues after a brief pause....strangely you sense your raven is still alive....
Was all well worth it.... and oddly the Raven talked ALOT less after all that... annoyance solved!