RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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The game is in the last part of Rivers Run Red and the party just started tackling the troll lair in the south. They were a little worried that they were not going to be able to handle them and so they bought a great deal of gear and convinced their Spymaster, Chief Sootscale to help them wage war against the trolls. It has been established that the kobolds love to fight wars, and so it was easy to convince the Sootscales to help them out by sending fifteen kobolds with them.
They traveled to the hex and found the hidden trail that led to the lair, planning on luring out trolls and leading them to an ambush the kobolds set up. They were spotted, combat started with the two trolls keeping watch. One other troll joined them and three charm person spells later the combat ended. There was little bit more than that, but in the end they were able to pull off the diplomacy checks and other skill checks to convince the three trolls to follow them out of the lair and into the forest.
The kobolds and the party murdered the three trolls with only one kobold lost. The party suspects there are more trolls but doesn't know how many. They decided to rest a night and attack again in the morning. They know they may be attacked in the night by trolls wanting vengeance, and so plan on taking measures.
Now, I don't want to simply attack them at night. That isn't that inventive, nor is attacking the PCs in a camp they have set up to fight trolls tactically sound. I don't expect trolls to be good tacticians, but I also don't think they would be stupid.
I also don't want the trolls to just stay in the lair and wait. I want them to genuinely react to the attack in a way that makes sense and adds a bit of challenge to the lair. The trolls now know that someone is out there and laying siege to them.
I can think of a few reactions. First, they fortify and become more vigilant, using what time they have to properly nail their door shut and ruin the narrow path that leads up to the it. Second, they could abandon the lair and go to another location, possibly to attack a nearby town in retribution. Third, they could set up an ambush outside of the lair for when the party comes back.
What are your ideas?
Does charm person work on trolls? Are they not giantkin?
I would indeed say they prepared. And who knows how many trolls are inside? *evil*
Maybe a midnight "release the hounds" followed by a bunker down?
Also: Knowledge/Intelligence checks for the players to know that they might not want them all to come out at the same time?
Also: Dazzling display on kobolds should have them run off? ;)
Kill them. Take there stuff.
Oh wait, wrong side of the table.
Looking at usual Ogre's stats, they just aren't that bright. Intelligence and wisdom aren't great, and apparently they tend to ambush things only when lazy, not threatened - since they know the PC's are coming, they're more likely to sit and wait and occasionally lick there lips.
If there's a village or town they can raid that might be better - the PC's get to fight some of the trolls in the lair, but have to deal with the rest in clusters as they maul there way through the PC's subjects. It would also give the trolls at the lair a reason to fort up - in numbers I can't see Trolls being worried by some humans and a handful of lizard things about as big as there hand.
Greetings, fellow travellers.
In my game, Tartuk escaped and joined Hargulka's forces so this will make for a little surprise for the players. You could also replace a regular troll with a magic user for the same effect.
You could also have reinforcements arrive at dawn, say a troll with the half-dragon template so it doesn't (necessarily) get slaughtered on its way to the lair (nothing like a small silhouette against the rising sun getting larger and larger...).
The idea of a group of trolls returning from raiding a nearby settlement - having captives, cattle and plunder in tow? Have Nagrundi lead the way.
I like the scenario, where the trolls release 5-10 troll hounds harrassing the players at night, then bunker down by destroying the narrow path leading up to the dwarven outpost, fortifying the door and apply typical tactics like hurling boulders down at the players or similar things.
You could add some siege weapons for the trolls to use.
Does charm person work on trolls? Are they not giantkin?
Trolls are now humanoids of the giant sub-type making charm person viable.
Ruyan.
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Don't let a party get away with "nibbling" tactics to hit, run, and gradually wear down the entire fort while the enemy sits there accepting losses. You could send reinforcements to replace the lost trolls and consider the entire base on alert, meaning there won't be trolls just hanging around in separate chambers waiting to be slaughtered. Hargulka probably will have a plan in place, such as means to raise an alarm (after all, his trolls were killed), and places to setup an ambush where the size and reach of the trolls can be maximized, or where he can use his necklace to full effect.
Alternately, the party went through the effort of fortifying the camp, wouldn't hurt to throw trolls at them throughout the night (hit and run?) so they can't rest.
In my campaign, the party blitzed the fort, clearing most of it, but fled to recuperate at an old hunter's cabin when they ran out of spells and daily abilities. Hargulka came tracking with a hound and pair of survivor trolls and found their fortified hut before they could get a full 8 hours rest. With bear traps laid out cleverly, lots of trees, and in the middle of the night, made for an interesting battle that resulted in 3 downed characters and 1 staggered. The killing blow on Hargulka was done by the party's horse (paladin mount), about as close a battle as we could imagine.
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Sounds similar to something that occurred the first time I ran a group through. They actually snuck up an killed off everything up to R5, but then needed to head out in order to rest and restock on fire based spells. The sad thing is the remaining occupants are not that smart, but they didn't actually need to be. Knowing that they were under attack by something that was using fire they consolidated their forces by dividing half the remaining occupants to the areas of R7, and that of R19-10. R8 in effect becomes a death room. They left a scout in R4 to act as bait and lead what was attacking to R8. Once there the choke-points are then sealed and the rending fun begins.
Another option is to purposely leave a troll or two inside the keep, acting as a lure. The remaining trolls would be outside of the fortification hiding from a distance and watching the entrance. Once the party heads in, and the lure trolls lead the party deeper into the keep the remaining trolls would enter and seal off the escape.
Otherwise I would simply have all of the trolls abandon the keep and establish a new home elsewhere. Maybe at the elf ruins if it has been cleared out and the trolls know nobody is there now. Guess the best way to answer this is what would a bunch of ultra redneck hillbillies do (no offense to any ultra redneck hillbillies that might be reading this).
Hope that helps some.
On a sidenote, it looks like I will need to house rule over Charm Person to exclude Giant types. The way it is worded is correct that any current giant type has the chance to be charmed, including Storm Giants, which doesn't seem right to me.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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The biggest problem I have is the fey blooded sorceress with a DC 21 charm person. Se argued me to death that charm person should be included with the Compulsion spells that gained the DC boost her bloodline gave. I have no problem saying no, but she nagged me to death on this one and I decided to choose my battles.
I plan on doing a couple things to combat this. The first is to make Hargulka immune to mind affecting effects due to a ring Nyrissa gave him. It would be cursed so that the PCs can't sell or use it without problems. The other is to make Nagrundi harder to charm. He would gain a +4 against mind affecting and get to roll twice on any will save, taking the better roll.
Charm person only makes the target friendly to the caster, so I already ruled that it only makes them indiffent to the caster's allies and that some actions can make them hostile easily. The caster still needs to make diplomacy checks to convince them to do something, and because the party has a language barrier with the trolls all diplomacy DCs increase by +5. Because of the circumstances, I ruled the DC to convince them to leave the lair was DC 30. Any future diplomacy checks are going to be at least that difficult as Halgulka will punish anyone who obeys anyone but him or Nagrundi.
So my plan is to use a mix of these suggestions. Halgulka is going to send two trolls and about 8 troll hounds to attack the camp a few times, keeping the PCs on their toes and hopefully disrupting rest. I might even send the giant Munguk to help the trolls out.
Meanwhile, the fort is fortified. The trail is destroyed, two ballistias are setup, Halgulka waits and watches from the watch tower to use his necklace and a boulder trap is set up to help stop climbers. If the PCs make it in, the trolls fall back and setup an ambush in R8.
I also have a group that joined the trolls because of something the PCs did. I nearly forgot about them and plan on using them to harass the camp.
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Pg. 210 in the Core should answer the charm person issue for you. Charm person is part of the Charm subschool, and not Compulsion. Your choice however if you want to continue with that.
Another idea I had is why not throw in a Troll Cleric or Sorcerer into the mix. Give them Dispel Magic or Silence on their spell list. That might help to bring this back into a challenge instead of a cake walk.
I like the idea of harassing the party to keep them on their toes at night. Perhaps the trolls can gatherup a couple of other critters in the area to follow them to the PC's camp, like Hodags, Forest Drakes, or a hydra. Could make for quite a surprise when a couple of trolls go running through the camp with the party wondering why they didn't stop to engage, and then the big surprise comes out behind them.
I had a dryad and a stone witch counseling the trolls (courtesy N) and several trolls in Hargulka's throne room aiding him (my PC's have a LOT of help usually). Blindness from the nymph on half the party makes things REAL interesting real fast ;)
Perhaps some trolls were out hunting and wrecking things while the first attack happened and also while they slept. Then, when they go inside of the cave for their next attack, it just so happens that those trolls that were out hunting have come back home. Then it doesn't look smart or tactical, just bad luck that they're now surrounded.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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I am aware of the +5 and was very happy to use it. However, the witch in the group used evil eye (saves) and the fighter used Dazzling Display to good effect. That would turn the +8 the trolls had in the fight into as low as -1 (One troll wasn't threatened at all and didn't qualify for the +5.) That means that in best case scenarios for the trolls they needed a 13 on the die to succeed (35% chance?) and worst case a natural 20.
I am not too worried though. I plan on utilizing more non-charmable foes as well as make charm person a bit harder to use in combat. I think she expects it to be as powerful as dominate person when it shouldn't be. After reading the spell and several discussions on it, I decided that all it does is make the target friendly to the caster, and that any aggressive act by the party will end the spell. She can use it all she wants for out-of-combat situations or to avoid combats. Once a combat has started, it really isn't going to be very useful.
She can use it all she wants for out-of-combat situations or to avoid combats. Once a combat has started, it really isn't going to be very useful.
Big +1 from me :)
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You could add some siege weapons for the trolls to use.
+1
How far away from the outpost did the party set up their camp?
Have the trolls shoot burning hay bales at the camp with a trebuchet.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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trebuchets wouldn't work considering the layout of their fort. Ballistas are about all they could get away with, which is fine.
There has been some good role play going on online in the facebook group page we have and it appears a couple of the party members are advocating rushing back and keeping the attack going. It has only been an hour in game time, so it is possible to do so without meeting much resistance.
I am going to have a troll or two poking at the burned remains of the troll hounds they left behind if they do rush back. From that point I am going to run it like I was planning to before they attacked the first time.
If they do delay in the attack, either by resting or just messing around, then the fort will become more fortified and they will have to deal with more trolls. They have also been alerted to another enemy in the area, Howl-of-the-North-Wind, who is a Large sized super worg and who is leading "at least 20" wolves who are actually werewolves. I am only using these wolves as a scare tactic for now. I plan on having them attack, but only when it feel right and doing so wouldn't overwhelm the PCs.
Howl is the leader of a werewolf pack?
Holy crab!