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Tell me what you think of my archetype.
Shinobi Monk archetype
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
all simple weapons, plus the crossbow (light or heavy), kama, katana, kusarigama, nunchaku, sai, shortbow, short sword, shuriken, siangham, and wakizashi.
Perception, Survival, Stealth, Heal are class skills.
Ninja Trick: A shinobi can select a Ninja Trick (see below) for which she qualifies in place of the following monk class abilities:
slow fall (4th),
high jump (5th),
wholeness of body (7th),
diamond body (11th),
abundant step (12th),
diamond soul (13th),
quivering palm (15th),
timeless body (17th),
tongue of the sun and moon (17th),
empty body (19th),
perfect self (20th). This replaces the monk class ability the shinobi gives up for this Ninja Trick.
Shinobi loses furry of blows, but gains
Can select style feats as part of the bonus feats allowed by monks.
Fuse Style (Ex): At 1st level, a Shinobi can fuse two of the styles he knows into a more perfect style. The Shinobi can have two style feat stances active at once. Starting a stance provided by a style feat is still a swift action, but when the Shinobi switches to another style feat, he can choose one style whose stance is already active to persist. He may only have two style feat stances active at a time.
Starting at level 6 you gain Sneak attack 1d6 and gain 1d6 every other level after 2d6 level 8 etc. (8d6 at level 20).
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Would also like to see some Ideas on Better ninja builds or Ninja archetypes. I am fine with Naruto and other sources for ideas. Would love to find a way to make those builds work without having to create my own stuff. That way it would be PFS legal. I have seen some people don't like orange jump suits, yell that your attacking kind of ninja but with vanish trick and other tricks you can make any ninja type work. I just can't find a good way to make unarmed strike, Shurkins and kumai work. Pathfinder doesn't have kumai but they were real tools used by ninja, not as weapons so much as tools. So any orential type builds would be good to see.
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Rite Publishing will be working on a Way of the Shinobi guide designed for the Kaidan (Japanese horror) setting for PFRPG some time next year. In it there will be 'shinobi' archetypes for monk, ninja, samurai and other classes, new feats, new ki powers, a shinobi prestige class, rules for designing shinobi houses and more.
Just select a race like henge or kitsune to have built in shapechange abilities, before applying that to a ninja class.
Actually the Qinggong Monk archetype, in many ways stole my ideas (though Paizo didn't know they stole it...) for my intended shinobi monk.
We have 'ghost monk' archetype with some of those ideas, already published in #30 Haunts for Kaidan. Currently $1.60 for the PDF, today is the last day on Paizo's Black Friday sale.
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I will be looking for the Way of the shinobi as it comes out. I have found the the ninja is one of those classes that other players hate on with metagamming. If they know your a ninja they expect ninja things from you. I have been talking with a couple of local DMs wondering if they will let me play a ninja without telling the party what I am. To let me use a role played disguise to hide that I am a ninja. I have thought of pretending to be a bard or a monk, that way some of my ninja skills will be covered up. This will only work if you have some kind of ninja clan ties. Either with you as a lone wolf being hunted or on a mission for the clan. Under orders not to reveal your ninja ways to the outside world. I mean ninjas are suppose to be a secret order etc.
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I think we need some more archetypes that apply to all classes but are theme based Shinobi would be one I could see as that. The archeologist for the bard, if they open it up a bit. What would be really cool is something for a class ability buy system like they have in the Advanced race book. That way you could buy different class abilites and create custom classes with just the right feel for what you want to play without being locked into something for 20 levels. Come on who really has made it from level 1 -20 with a character and got to play them more than once at level 20. So why bother getting that high if you can't play it.
Why would I take this class instead of multiclassing Monk (Master of Many Styles)/Ninja?
It doesn't seem to give anything new really.
While not shinobi, you could check Rite Publishing's Way of the Samurai to get a feel of what the shinobi supplement will be like - plus it's still on sale for one more day, of the Black Friday sale.
In the shinobi book I intend to expand the number of Ki powers, as provieded under Ninja tricks and as those in the Qinggong monk archetype. When the APG created the feats 'spiderwalk' and 'cloudwalk', I thought for sure that Paizo was going to base their ninja off the monk, so when they went off a rogue, I was surprised. To me, Spiderwalk and Cloudwalk were just the start and the directions to go with a shinobi monk archetype.
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You are right. I took Master of many styles/ninja/the Quingong to make this archetype. It was more to give my ninja unarmed combat dmg without feeling like I am losing anything. The fuse of two styles is really to give the ninja that jet lee type feel as most styles are wisdom base only monks get full uses of them. The ninja being cha base for most ablities kinda sucks. If the ninja was wisdom based I think it would solve a lot of my problems with it. THe feat Monastic Legacy has the still mind class feature meaning ninjas can't take it. This makes unarmed ninjas just not do able till high levels. Why would a ninja at high level just decide to stop using weapons it doesn't play out right. This archetype was to help with all that and let stay one class.
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I am also big on some of the scroll use for ninjas. The ninja needs a way to create minor / create major items as he needs to hide his ninja tools and outfits from people searching. Maybe some spells that can be cast using the
Kuji-in ninja hand signs give shinobi warriors strength of mind and body. The seals also provide mystical powers such as invisibility.
In all my publications for Kaidan, the emphasis is on authenticity of culture - so you'll never see ninjas in those black pajamas. Ninja never wore those black suits we all see in the ninja movies. That's a convention taken from Kabuki plays that included ninja. They most likely wore whatever costume the locals were wearing such as a monk's habit or peasant's garb - whatever outfit would best help him blend into the local crowd, whatever that might be.
In a Kabuki play, the guys who wore those black pajamas were stage hands. Wearing the black suits they could hold lanterns and props and still remain 'unseen', while the actors wore overly colorful costumes so the audience to pay attention only to them. In the first kabuki play that featured a ninja as part of the storyline, one of the stage hands, who is supposed to be 'invisible', removed his hat/mask, pulled out a stage blade and attacked the intended victim on cue. This is where the idea for ninja in black suits came from - and no where else.
Even though the Japanese know that ninja's didn't wear them, they accept it as the kabuki representation of a ninja.
If it keeps the flavor for your game, keep the black pajama ninja, but if you wanted to even slightly emulate authenticity, then have ninja dress as a normal person - it's his skills and ki that make him a ninja, not the suit.
The super powers of a Ninja IRL were nonexistent.
The super powers of a ninja included changeing into animals, summoning animals, fight and being unseen. But the base ninja class can do nothing of the super stuff. which is both good and bad. I would like to be at least some of it
Sorry, I don't watch anime, and the ninja movies I've seen never had a ninja doing any sort of shapechange, nor summoning. I've never even heard of that. I mentioned in my first post if you're hengeyokai or other shapechanging race and become a ninja - you can turn into an animal already, you don't need 'ninja' to provide that for you.
And really, if you want to shapechange, summon and other more wahoo powers, just multiclass into a spellcaster - problem solved. I just don't see a ninja to cover every possibility. It's better to provide shinobi archetypes for sorcerer, druid (maybe), ranger, monk, even ninja (as is my intention with Way of the Shinobi supplement). So those over-the-top, anime-inspired options are available. The ninja class cannot cover every possibility on its own without becoming a broken class.
2nd edition had something that you may find useful in its Complete Ninja's Handbook. In there were the various Shinobi kits that were designed as eastern-themed kits for pretty much every other class. It usually involved giving thief abilities to the class, either in place of other class abilities, or by diminishing the base class abilities.
The basic premise was that a clan of ninja wouldn't be entirely composed of ninjas - there would be plenty of other classes, but with an oriental (or ninja-style) twist.
Adapting these kits into archetypes is on my list of things to do. Unfortunately, it's a very long list, and as such I haven't done any of the ground work so far :P
2nd edition had something that you may find useful in its Complete Ninja's Handbook. In there were the various Shinobi kits that were designed as eastern-themed kits for pretty much every other class. It usually involved giving thief abilities to the class, either in place of other class abilities, or by diminishing the base class abilities.
The basic premise was that a clan of ninja wouldn't be entirely composed of ninjas - there would be plenty of other classes, but with an oriental (or ninja-style) twist.
Adapting these kits into archetypes is on my list of things to do. Unfortunately, it's a very long list, and as such I haven't done any of the ground work so far :P
Where do think my idea of a Shinobi book came from... I've got the complete Ninja's Handbook right in front of me!
And same premise, my already published Way of the Samurai supplement applies to members of the samurai caste, and perhaps the same samurai house, which includes archetypes for gunslinger, paladin, ranger, wizard and samurai classes. (Same with Way of the Yakuza - with archetypes for 2 kinds of rogues, a bard, a tattoo wizard, and a fighter.)
I'm doing it to support my Kaidan (Japanese horror) published setting for Pathfinder, so for me, it's on the top of my long list...
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I have not played pathfinder in 6 months because I can't find something I am willing to play. I don't want to muilit-class and I just can't get the abilities I want on one character. SO i have just stop playing. I would play PFS but there is no crafting and I love using the crafting rules to build and repair on the road so you only need to take tools. To me the ninja is a key survivial type character.
Because you cannot use 3PP in PFS, is why I don't touch it.
I wouldn't stop playing because of the lack of a mechanic or class build, I would just create my own class build if that was the case. I've designed unofficially about 20 or so classes for PF, and since I've been freelancing, about a half dozen classes published.
The problem seems to be you wanting a ninja that does gonzo and what you'd expect from a balanced class. No single class can nor should cover every possibility. That would almost define it as a broken class if it could do that.
Are you serious?
Out of the 22 classes you can't find a single one you want to play just because you don't want to multiclass?
This "class" is a Ninja/Qinggong Master of Many Styles. There is literally nothing that separates him from that multiclass.
Therefore, this "class" already exists in the game. There is no reason for it to exist as a separate class, period.
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Here would be a good example of what I want a factotum that got wildshape but not heal or turn undead. Give him ninja weapons done class solve. Problem is none of my local groups or PFS (as meaning online play) would allow a 3pp or none pathfinder class like that even through there is a pathfinder conversion book that helps make the class easy to convert. My local group only uses Core, APG, UC, UM. i belive that might have started using the UE but not sure it has been awhile. I follow the adventure they are running but it is all hack and slash no role play. No building or crafting. Same reasons i have yet to play PFS. I love everything about it but the fact you cant craft items. I am not even talking magical weapons. I am talking primitive stone, bone, etc weapons. but I am going off topic.
Rynjin: Yes this class is"Ninja/Qinggong Master of Many Styles". But it is not a class it is an archetype. That would allow for you to get deeper into the Ninja clans and oriental type of play without having to lose so much to do it. It should also be mentioned that the ninja is a super archetype of the Rogue as is.
There's even less reason for it to exist as an archetype than as a whole class.
Just man up and admit what you really want to do is get all the powers of a Ninja and a QMoMS without losing anything by multiclassing like anyone else would have to.
Basically what you want is a gestalt character passed off as an archetype.
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What is a gestalt character? I will look that up not sure what that is.
Ninja the Shaow warrior is a book by Joel Levy.
in this book it states Ninja Juhakkei or the eighteen ninja skills are as followed:
Seishin-teki Kyoyo(spirtual refinement)
Taijutsu(unarmed combat)
Ninja Ken (Sword fighting)
Bojutsu (Stick and staff fighting)
Shurikenjutsu (throwing blades)
Sojutsu (spear fighting)
Naginatajutsu (naginata fighting)
Kusarigamajutsu (chain and sickle weapon)
Kayakujutsu (fire and explosives)
Hensojutse (disguise and ipersonation)
Shinobi-iri (stealth and entering methods)
bajutsu(horsemanship)
Sui-ren(water training)
Boryaku(military strategy)
Choho(espionage and spying)
Intonjutsu(escaping and concealment)
Tenmon(meterology)
Chi-mon (geography)
It also states that the ninja super powers were legend and not real. Which is why i said it was both good and bad they don't have them.
As far as wanting all the powers your right.
Fuse of two styles-shows unarmed combat
Unarmed combat damge of a monk - only way to make it useful at any level. 1d3 does not do a lot even at level 1.
Wildshape - only really need the beast shape I type. because it is cool. helps with spying and gettting a way.
Ninja weapons because yes i don't want to spend every feat on exotic weapons. How are they exotic if it is where you are from?
There is only 3 ninja tricks I really like, and 2 master tricks. Assassinate and Unarmed combat master. but by then (level 10) why would i put down my magical blade to fight with my hands? If i did it from level one that might make a differeance.
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I think I want to build a point by system for class abilites like they have for the Advanced Race book. This would allow you to pick and choose what abilites you wanted to fit you character. Looking in my 2nd edition skills and powers have really got me thinking about it. I just need a way to rate class abilites. Like wildshape = 3 pts Bardicknowledge = 2 points etc then you would just set a class point level and buy your abilites. This would keep a even class. etc.
For me personally yes I want it all the Factotum was the best class built in a long time. It allowed you to do everything not well and not all the time but you could do it all. Alast he is outlawed in pathfinder. Who would be a better pathfinder then a know it all?
How are they exotic if it is where you are from?
Weapons aren't exotic because of where they are from, rather to use them it takes special training. Like a katana, when wielded with 2 hands it is not exotic and any samurai, ninja, etc can wield one. However, if you want to use katana in one hand, even if they guy who made was your father, you still need specialized training to do that, since katana, ideally is a 2 handed weapon.
Exotic doesn't mean it's made in the orient so it's exotic, rather a weapon is so specialized it takes training just to wield them normally.