So I have finally gotten around to running a DS game, something I've been talking about for a long time. I am using the athas.org 3.5 with conversions to pathfinder. Also I am using the Psionics Unleashed rules for the psionics stuff.
One of my players has asked to play an alchemist, and I am a bit unsure how to respond. There is no history of the class being available on Athas, but it is also a new class created by Paizo, so it never existed when the DS material was written. Athas' bards are masters of alchemical goods and poisons, and potions exist, so there seems no reason why an alchemist would be out of place in the setting.
I also don't really see a problem with the use of alchemist to avoid the stigma of arcane casting. Since alchemists must be literate (which is and of itself a crime) carry a formula book (which looks much too much like a spell book to an execute first and ask questions templar) and carrying around contraband items (like poisons) should be enough to keep the alchemist in trouble with the authorities. Other NPC's could regard the alchemist similarly to a bard.
My main concerns are mechanical, and how an alchemist would interact in a low magic, low gold game. Bombs are a powerful weapon available early. I don't know how I feel about the alchemist tossing bombs around when other characters don't even have metal weapons. Feral mutagen also seems like it could be a problem. The natural attacks are good in normal games, they look even better when compared with the weapons available to low level DS characters. I think I would forbid that discovery, or give it a level requirement. The extracts seem like they wouldn't be a huge problem.
I'm leaning towards allowing it, partially out of curiosity to see how it works out. But I'm wondering what other people think. Would you allow it? If so what modifications if any would you give the class?
Other classes get altered to fit in the setting. No reason why the alchemist should not be changed to better fit. Maybe Alchemist bombs can cause their own form of desecration to the fragile landscape.
LazarX wrote: Other classes get altered to fit in the setting. No reason why the alchemist should not be changed to better fit. Maybe Alchemist bombs can cause their own form of desecration to the fragile landscape. I like this, it really pulls the alchemist into the setting better. Maybe they could damage the environment when their bombs go off in the splash radius of the bomb.
I don't think it addresses the mechanical problem though. The alchemist may simply decide he doesn't care about the negative effects of his bombs on the land and use them liberally. After all that's what defilers do.
Also would there be a preserver option for the alchemist? That either doesn't use bombs or has some ability to reduce or eliminate the negative effects on nature. Perhaps a discovery.
Andy Griffin wrote: LazarX wrote: Other classes get altered to fit in the setting. No reason why the alchemist should not be changed to better fit. Maybe Alchemist bombs can cause their own form of desecration to the fragile landscape. I like this, it really pulls the alchemist into the setting better. Maybe they could damage the environment when their bombs go off in the splash radius of the bomb.
I don't think it addresses the mechanical problem though. The alchemist may simply decide he doesn't care about the negative effects of his bombs on the land and use them liberally. After all that's what defilers do.
Also would there be a preserver option for the alchemist? That either doesn't use bombs or has some ability to reduce or eliminate the negative effects on nature. Perhaps a discovery. Those questions I leave up to you. I do encourage you to avoid letting an alchemist be a character who can do a lot of wizard stuff while avoiding the penalties that wizards and sorcerers normally incur in that setting. As alchemy while not being spellcasting, is still another form of magic.
Andy Griffin wrote: LazarX wrote: Other classes get altered to fit in the setting. No reason why the alchemist should not be changed to better fit. Maybe Alchemist bombs can cause their own form of desecration to the fragile landscape. I like this, it really pulls the alchemist into the setting better. Maybe they could damage the environment when their bombs go off in the splash radius of the bomb.
I don't think it addresses the mechanical problem though. The alchemist may simply decide he doesn't care about the negative effects of his bombs on the land and use them liberally. After all that's what defilers do.
And that's why they are defilers. And there are places that will rend a defiler limb from limb if they can pull it off. Actions have consequences.
Potions in Athas are stored in fruits, not potion bottles. You don't drink Athasian potions, you eat them. That changes the flavor of the class, I think.
That said, I'd agree that alchemists would fit the same niche as an Athasian bard. They work with poisons, but don't have the intrigue training that Athasian bards have. They're the ones that make poisons and generate fruit that has all kinds of strange effects on the people who eat it.
I'd consider playing an Athasian alchemist as a gardener - they grow fruits to store their potions in, and also grow poison ingredients. Could be a fun character.
Mechanically, I don't think it's necessary to add the defiling stuff to alchemists. They're not arcane casters, after all. It is entirely possible that they'd be confused with an arcane caster, though, particularly if their formula book were to be discovered.
Bombs are a powerful starting weapon, particularly if you're going to be limiting their available resources. Keep in mind, though, that alchemists need raw ingredients for the Brew Potion feat. To get those ingredients, they need access to raw materials - if everybody is fighting for resources, alchemists shouldn't be able to just turn ceramic pieces into potions - they have to gather materials or buy them from other magically-inclined people like elemental clerics, druids, or arcanists (either defilers or the Veiled Alliance).
So I have basically decided to run the class mostly as written mechanically and see where it goes. I will adjust things if it becomes necessary.
I'm going to treat both the discovery and spell/formula lists as suggestions. There are some things on both lists that I just can't see allowing in the setting, and some spells that I would be perfectly happy to allow. I think I will allow some of the bard trade secrets as discoveries.
I am still nervous about the bombs, but I'll deal with it if it comes up. I don't think it will even out over time on it's own, as the PC's get better equipment.
If there's interest I will post a follow-up with how it goes.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Optionally, you might require the alchemist to take vivisectionist if bombs are the major concerns for you (it replaces them with sneak attack). Reducing the damage die or requiring small amounts of costly material components for them might be other options.
By the way, flavor wise to make the bombs fit (if it's a concern), you could make them some kind of volatile concoction of alchemical fire or primordial soup or some such, throw in clay pots or hollowed out gourds/bones.
So I said I'd post a follow up so...
The bombs weren't the problem I thought they would be. It's amazing how you can stress about something, and then have it not be a big deal.
The formula list hasn't been that bad, but have had to tweak it, more for feel than for balance issues.
Player never seemed to want to take feral mutagen, as I was concerned about that one as well.
Even an alchemist can't craft poisons great, it's expensive and the DC's aren't that great. I think some of the bard trade secrets would make good poisoning discoveries. There is one that increases DC of poisons crafted, and another that decreases cost, they might not work in other settings, but I think they are appropriate for DS.
Anyway I think it has worked out fine, if anybody else was thinking about allowing this, I would say to go for it.
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