So we've been playing Kingmaker for about a year now and have been in the second part for a little over 3 months (about 5 sessions). The players have built up their kingdom quite a bit through expansion of territory rather than building up the capital but I have now seen some of the problems with that and are embarking on an ambitious expansion program in the capital itself (it also provided me an excellent way to introduce 3 NPCs from the Scarred Lands books that are going to make life very interesting for them :O) ). We have, however, hit a snag.
The PCs haven't really gone adventuring for a long time now. Since the initial quelling of the bandits and death of the Stag Lord the PCs (re: players) have focused 100% of their energies on management of their new kingdom. They are involving themselves in a lot of aspects that are pretty far outside the purview of the adventure itself. This reached a head today when the Baron of the nation (a cleric) was killed by the werewolf with a rather fortunate crit from his great axe (and I mean killed outright - full hp to -CON in a single hit!!). The player (m y oldest friend) was completely cool about it though - he took over Jhod Kavken for the remainder of the session until a raise spell could be arranged. this lead to them deciding on a manner of trial by council members for those accused of capital crimes - it's pretty complex and was rather surprising to me as the whole group is quite involved! They first conducted the trail of a man accused of murder some months previous (a home made encounter) and found him guilty but the death sentence was reduced to 20 years hard labour. The planning of this trial and what form it would take took up 3 hours of a 6 hour session!!
I think I've managed to turn a Dungeons & Dragons game into Lawyers & Litigation!!
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Question: Is everyone having fun?
Anwswer: Yes!
>> You're doing it right ;)
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Don't worry too much about this. In time the players will decide to go out and adventure.
If you feel the kingdom management is going too long, just start poking them with quests and reports. Remember, the reports of trolls can start to incur unrest in the kingdom if they don't handle it in a timely manner.
Oh we're having fun to be sure! I've just never run a D&D game like this.
The PCs do have a couple of the hooks already from the inside covers but I don't plan to put the rumors of the trolls out there until they have done at least one of them.
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Seems like what you've done is discovered the awesomeness of Kingmaker! :)
I seriously want to play in this AP sometime.
I hope this doesn't sound like shilling, but if I were you'd I'd definitely think about grabbing a copy of Ultimate Campaign when it comes out in April. It sounds like your players are loving the whole non-traditional "downtime" campaign thing.
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I didn't like Kingmaker. To start with Kingdom building is a lot of fun but eventually it was just a huge chore. For me only books 3 and 6 really had that X factor that puts them over the top. The rest were pretty uninspired. Plus I hated the way book 6 comes completely out of nowhere, it's just a jarring disconnect from the rest of the AP.
I'd run CotCT, LoF or CC again in a second but KM? Not a chance.
Glad you are having fun though.
Then really, why are you even posting here? If you disliked the campaign so much, just hide the forum.
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Interesting to see where the play goes. We had a trial involving Grigori (Book 2), and my players have been pushing legislation for "fey rights" after befriending Pervilash and Tyg. Thanks to the party making the unpopular decision to continue the fey edicts after dark fey killed several people including children, we now have rogue hunters outside kingdom borders led by a popular logger taking down fey (with financial support from the richest man in town who is seeking a spot on the council).
Good stuff.
Sounds like you're having a good time. Have fun with it and keep your "GM Senses" up and running for if/when the players are itching to hack something into giblets. ^____^
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Then really, why are you even posting here? If you disliked the campaign so much, just hide the forum.
Because I was trying to spark conversation about why people like Kingmaker. I am always iinterested in other people's experiences because in my experience the campaign was not a favourite and I'm curious as to why people love it so much.
I didn't hate Kingmaker btw, it's OK but only OK.
Because I was trying to spark conversation about why people like Kingmaker. I am always iinterested in other people's experiences because in my experience the campaign was not a favourite and I'm curious as to why people love it so much.
Because different people like different things? I'm not even trying to be snarky - I honestly think that is all it boils down to. I, myself, love the KM AP and I'm not really sure why. Could be that it has taken D&D into a completely different realm than I am used to - one where players spend 5 sessions worrying about how to enact laws and collect taxes and build houses & farmland for their citizens. Could be the heavy use of fey as the bad guys (especially considering I am a huge Harry Dresden fan) something that really isn't very often seen in the D&D games I have run and played in (in fact in 30 years I can't recall *any* campaign that centered around fey that I was involved in).
Or it could just be that I'm enjoying being back in the DMs chair after a 2 year break! There are so many reasons people like what they like it is really hard to pin it down.
Because different people like different things? I'm not even trying to be snarky - I honestly think that is all it boils down to. I, myself, love the KM AP and I'm not really sure why. Could be that it has taken D&D into a completely different realm than I am used to - one where players spend 5 sessions worrying about how to enact laws and collect taxes and build houses & farmland for their citizens. Could be the heavy use of fey as the bad guys (especially considering I am a huge Harry Dresden fan) something that really isn't very often seen in the D&D games I have run and played in (in fact in 30 years I can't recall *any* campaign that centered around fey that I was involved in).
Because I was trying to spark conversation about why people like Kingmaker. I am always iinterested in other people's experiences because in my experience the campaign was not a favourite and I'm curious as to why people love it so much.
Pretty much this. I love the fey themes (which I have reworked the campaign to introduce much, much more thoroughly and early in the story, foreshadowing Nyrissa as far back as the Stag Lord), and likewise as I'm a Dresden fan and am taking huge hints from the series.
I like the new options, though I'm admittedly not enamored of the Mass Combat system; I do love the kingdom building system though.
I love the chance for players to play some politics without having to get into the nitty-gritty of already-established kingdoms and social systems; they're, as adventurers, coming in from the outside and having to work their way up, earning the respect and recognition of their soon-to-be peers.
I love the exploration, the wide variety of encounters, and the ways the game can be handled differently. Using the exact same game plan with the exact same encounters, two Kingmaker games can be completely different from step one, depending on whether the party slays anything that opposes them (as some groups have done) or makes as many alliances as possible (as my group has - the only groups they've killed rather than talk into partnership have been the Stag Lord's gang [not counting the bandit survivors, who now are part of their guard!], Hargulka's trolls, and Vesket's lizardfolk [though some of them tried, eating a kid was over the line for some of the others and a fight broke out]).
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I think the secret of whether Kingmaker is a great AP for your group or not has a lot to do with how the GM modifies the AP. I read this AP and it was basically a toolbox with a bunch of loosely interconnected short storylines, highly detailed engaging set encounters, and wandering monsters. In short a perfect framework for a sandbox game. If you run this AP straight out of the box, IMO it will be less satisfying than most other APs whch have a more linear path that is highly detailed.
This AP should have come with a disclaimer that the GM needs to spend some time adding to it in order to make it the best it can be. The added value of custom tailoring encounters, storylines, etc to mesh with your PCs and your groups gaming style/preferences cannot be emphasized enough.
It does say that this game should be about the PCs and they should drive the story, which means you as the GM need to fill in the blanks, flesh out the other parts of the sandbox they may venture into that are not detailed, and give them what they are seeking in the way of a campaign.
I know of or have heard about a fair number of new or inexperienced GMs that started with Kingmaker. Also, GMs that have a lot of experience but not much time to modify the AP. Personally, I think this is not the AP to use for that, RotR, SS, or CC would be better. My players ask me about trade routes, what the price of wool is today, who uses what type of boats, what sort of fish are found in the rivers, who is allied with the Orlovskys, etc. These are all questions that require some thinking, planning, and documenting to keep track of and assign. This is a bit overwhelming for a new GM, and to be fair, something most of the other APs don't require to run smoothly.
For me KM is a great AP b/c it organized allot of stuff I already did.
In 3 separate home brew games 2nd Ed and 2 3.5 games I had players running a kingdom. I used fey extensively adapting them to d&d from white wolfs good old world of darkness stuff.
GMs looking for more Fey options should check out changeling it has some great Fey that haven't been seen in pathfinder or d&d yet and I am fairly certain It inspired allot of what Jim Buthcher ultimately adapted into his series. (Love Jim Buther BTW and I miss his Furies of Caulderan series)
I also modded the heck out of both the kingdom building and mass combat systems b/c they needed allot more detail to seem realistic (over 40 pages of work if anyone wants that side ping me I can email it).
Short version KM is the best if you are willing to work at it.
Sent docs to those who requested and provided email address. slight exaggeration rules came out to about 24 pages. Notes from my campaign that I write before sessions made it 40 :p
GMing is allot of work but many thanks to those of you that add ideas and mods in here they have been a huge help.
(Monster kingdom, the Summer Winter Jim Butcher style thing (particularly the jabberwalk rings), someone mentioned using Citadel of Pain which I looked into and plan on using, all and all great stuff peeps.)
Glad you like Solspiral =)
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Oddly enough I just introduced a LN cleric of Asmodeus into my campaign as a barrister who tries to get criminals out of jams (high priced defense attorney)and he will also side with any group looking to sue or otherwise harass the PCs. He can be bought off, provided the PCs are willing to sign a contract that allows him to build shrines in all their cities dedicated to Asmodeus...
Lawyers and Litigation indeed.
Oddly enough I just introduced a LN cleric of Asmodeus into my campaign as a barrister who tries to get criminals out of jams (high priced defense attorney)and he will also side with any group looking to sue or otherwise harass the PCs. He can be bought off, provided the PCs are willing to sign a contract that allows him to build shrines in all their cities dedicated to Asmodeus...
Lawyers and Litigation indeed.
Oh my...that is...awesome! I've moved the AP to the Scarred Lands of the Sword & Sorcery line and there are numerous ways to use this I never thought of. Thanks for the inspiration!
Anytime, for mine lawyer she's an attractive Samsaran Priestess (using the 3rd party class similar to cloistered cleric)her whole deal is that she has promised to serve all of the gods in some capacity throughout her various reincarnated lives.
In her previous life she was a Ranger and I gave her survival and perception as class skills for her [i]shards of the past[i] class feature. Her domains are Knowledge, Trickery, and Law.
She can be turned ally or she can ever be a thorn in the PCs side, it just depends on both their tolerance and ability to negotiate. She is not evil despite serving an evil god, and she genuinely believes that either the PCs need to tighten their laws to eliminate the loopholes she intends to exploit or accept that they cannot control everything and leave the lawmaking in more capable hands (like hers.)
IF they adventure with her or some other way get her leveled 'm toying with the notion of adding Bard levels in the mix.
Feel free to clone her ;p