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I am already starting to work in the mythic rules from the playtest into the Kingmaker game I am running. I will be posting in the playtest forums once I have a few games of it ran, but this topic is to discuss how to implement the mythic rules into this AP.
I think Kingmaker is great canidate for the Mythic rules due to the several memorable enemies, locations, and events. The sandbox nature of it also allows for a looser time table to accomplish the minor challenges needed to gain more tiers. The nature of ascension into the mythic tiers could also be more sandbox in nature. For example, in my game two characters could have been granted it through a patron, another through bloodline, and the other two in any of the other possible options.
I am near the end of Part 2, so I haven't put any thought into adding the mythic rules into Part 1 besides giving the Staglord a single mythic tier in the Trickster. I imagine that would make him even more powerful and impossible to beat, but that is something to be discussed.
In part two there are two creatures that I plan on making mythic. The first is the troll Hargulka, which is easy due to the mythic troll in the playtest document. The second is the owlbear at the end. That one would be a bit trickier.
As for major challenges, there are a few locations that would be easy to adapt. The troll's lair, the fey tower, and the owlbear den can all be given greater challenge elements. The owlbear den is probably the best canidate due to it being the last part of RRR.
I'll keep posting stuff here as I come up with it, but I want to open this up to everyone who wants to incorporate these new rules into the AP.
Count me interested. I was planning from day one to put Mythic in this game, and am trying to figure out how to do it. My group's currently in RRR, a few months into the kingdom building, and en route to the Dancing Lady's castle by way of the Mad Hermit's lair.
My main difficulty is coming up with a way for the party to GET Mythic power. Given how I've adapted KM to my setting, the fey courts have been getting a lot of attention even this early in the tale; everyone in my five-person party except the Samurai is very fey-phobic and justifiably paranoid about making deals with them, so having a representative of one of the fey courts show up and hand out Mythic goodies would be viewed with a great deal of skepticism.
The other idea I've thought out was that they "find" it rather than earn it; I replaced the Hodag lair in RRR with a zone I called "The Mazewood", a twisting fey demiplane within the Narlmarches constructed by none other than The Puck, Robyn Goodfellow, high trickster and lord jester of the Summer Court. Having them encounter a low-tier Mythic monster within the Mazewood and defeat it, thus earning the power, could be one way to jumpstart the idea.
If I manage to pull it off, I likewise am possibly going to stick one tier of Champion on Hargulka, I think.
Any other suggestions would be welcome.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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In my game, one of the PCs was one shot killed by the staglord. He had jokingly "prayed" to the fey before the fight for protection. A joke is even better than a prayer to the fey, so I rolled and determined that one of the elders took notice of him. Instead of dying, he vanished. He was told that if he wanted to live he needed to find the missing steward of the sword Briar and keep Nyrissa from finding it. This was well before the playtest started but it would have been a good chance to hand him a mythic tier.
Another PC is a cleric of Gorum, and he has been getting attention from both his god and the cult of Gyronna. Easy in right there.
We have a fey blooded sorcerer, whose grandmother is Old Beldame. Old Beldame could easily show her where to "unlock" her fey blood even further, thus gaining a mythic tier.
To be honest, I think the mythic tiers should be left up to the GMs and the party. Everyone is going to be different, and it would mean more if the gaining of the mythic tier was personalized.
Just for Part 2 we have a few locations that are great candidates.
- Candlemere Tower could hold something that is not just attracting Will-o-whisps, but could grant great power.
- Hargulka gained his mythic power from something he found in the dwarven outpost.
- The Lonely Barrow could hold a source of power or a clue on how to gain it.
We also have situations that could provide it.
- The fey courts are worried that Nyrissa is going to succeed and decide to give some champions the power to deal with her.
- Gorum is pleased with all the battles the party have had.
- Erastil needs champions to help tame the dangerous wilderness and protect them from Nyrissa.
I would find what works best for your group and work it in.
As for the troll Hargulka, they have a mythic troll in the playtest and I was planning on taking that and either using it as it or adapting it. I'll post what I come up with.
I think Kingmaker is great canidate for the Mythic rules due to the several memorable enemies, locations, and events.
Absolutely agree! Color me interested!
My loose plans for mythic encounters (foes and ascension/gaining a tier) include
My first idea was to tie the different encounters to my differnt PCs, but since they are fairly spread out (in time, space and level), some other solution has to be found.
I think, I will go for #4 for ascension (gives me the excuse to beef it up a bit, hehe) if I like the results (player feedback and workload for me having to up all the encounters), #5 will get them to tier 2, last to tier 3.
My problems arise from the additional bookkeeping arising from the mythic abilities and the (exaggerated) comments of the mythic rules/abilities being OP/imbalanced...
Ruyan.
Ok, I'm confused. Maybe I should move my posting to the playtest feedback, but since it's directly KM related, I start here.
I added:
This is what I came up with:
Big Bad Troll CR 8/MR 2
XP 4,800
Male troll fighter 4/champion 2 (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 268)
CE Large humanoid (giant, mythic)
Init +1; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +6
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DEFENSE
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AC 22, touch 10, flat-footed 21 (+7 armor, +1 Dex, +5 natural, –1 size)
hp 123 (6d8+4d10+84); regeneration 5 (acid or fire)
Fort +13, Ref +4, Will +4; +1 vs. fear
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OFFENSE
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 darkwood thundering morningstar +18/+13 (2d6+12), claw +14 (1d6+4), bite +14 (1d8+4)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks mythic power (11/day, 1d6), rend (2 claws, 1d6+9), sudden attack
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TACTICS
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During Combat Hargulka uses Power Attack and Vital Strike tactically, adjusting when he uses them to strike foes with lower armor classes or to remain mobile and prevent powerful foes from getting full attacks on him in the unlikely event thaat he’s outmatched. His necklace of fireballs is somewhat legendary among his minions—he uses it against foes that try to hang back and avoid melee combat against him (starting with the most powerful first) or against a large number of foes that seem to be teetering on the brink of death.
Morale Hargulka fights to the death.
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STATISTICS
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Str 28, Dex 12, Con 24, Int 9, Wis 8, Cha 10
Base Atk +8; CMB +18; CMD 29
Feats Cleave, Intimidating Prowess, Iron Will, Multiattack, Power Attack, Vital Strike, Weapon Focus (morningstar), Weapon Spezialization (morningstar)
Skills Intimidate +17, Perception +6
Languages Giant
SQ armor training +1, bravery +1, mythic flaw (insanity)
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Always a Chance (Ex): Whenever you make an attack roll
that results in a natural 1 on the die, the attack is not
automatically a miss.
Hard to Kill (Ex): Whenever you are below 0 hit points, you automatically stabilize without needing to make a Constitution check. Bleed damage still causes you to lose hit points when below 0 hit points. In addition, you do not die until your total number of negative hit points is equal to or greater than twice your Constitution score.
To the Death (Ex) When below 0 hit points you don’t fall unconscious and don’t take damage from acting normally. You do not die until your total number of negative hit points is equal to or greater than three times your Constitution score.
About right? Doesn't feel that mythic to me.
I'm torn between this version, the (unique) Mythic Troll in the PDF and the more generic approach how to build a mythic monster. Each of these will result in a different adversary - would they be comparable in power?
help me out of here, guys! Your help and input is - as always - highly appreciated!
Ruyan.
Ok, I'm confused. Maybe I should move my posting to the playtest feedback, but since it's directly KM related, I start here.
** spoiler omitted **...
It doesn't feel mythic because you didn't include a lot of his powers in the stat block. At second tier, he has mythic initative. That means he can almost always go first (so the party is flat footed), and he can take a second whole turn before everyone in the party has acted. In addition, he can make a almost-guaranteed hit as a swift action with sudden attack. Finally, "to the death" means he can fight at full strength until he reaches a whopping -72 hp, giving him almost 200 effective hp.
So he's almost twice as hard to kill as before, and can start combat by going "Charge. Extra attack. Some of you go. Full attack. Extra attack.". And that's with no feat yet.
Feels mythic to me.
Right, forgot about Amazing Initiative. Thanks. What else did I miss/ not put in the statblock?
Plus, after re-reading my post does not resemble the latest version I thought I had submitted.
With your nice summary at the end I realize I've actually gone too far. My party will be no match at all for him.
Since I do not really know yet, whether I will delve into mythic land with my group, I guess I will add some more (and minor) flavorful abilities and await feedback of my group.
Thanks again, Bobson!
Ruyan.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Don't forget to add the number of tiers to the CR to figure out how tough he is. As you have him, that would be equivalent to a CR 10. If you run the trolls close to how they are in the original adventure, there is a possibility of fighting him with two normal trolls, a rock troll, and the two-headed troll. This is of course if the party is just charging into every room and making a bunch of noise.
I ran a playtest encounter with two trolls and a mythic troll and the party was killed in three rounds. I would use the mythic troll as is but alter things so that the party fights it alone.
If you use the troll with mythic tiers, remove a class level or two to lower the CR and run things so that the party fights it alone.
Also, he gets +1 natural armor for each tier. And DR 5/epic. 2 Mythic power uses. Also, Mythic Abilities = Mythic Rank + 1. I made a Mythic Werewolf being used right now and his extra ability is Mythic Bite, every time he confirms a crit on a bite attack he regains one use of Mythic Power not to exceed daily allotment.
As it turns out the Mythic subtype does become QUITE powerful, easily.
Also, he gets +1 natural armor for each tier. And DR 5/epic. 2 Mythic power uses. Also, Mythic Abilities = Mythic Rank + 1.
This version of Mythic Hargulka would not have the mythic subtype, so wouldn't gain any of these bonuses, because he advanced as a character. If he instead were based on the mythic troll, he would have these instead of his current selection of powers.
I figured that an alternative scenario where Vordakai returns to full power would be good reason to give players some Mythic Ranks.
Of course, the stuff near the end and the post-game scenarios (as in, after Nyrissa) should warrant a few Mythic Ranks and quests as well.
Yeah, I figure, I approached it in the wrong way and was totally surprised by the raw power increase coming with Amazing Iniative.
I had a similar experience to what you described, Caleb. The pally (frontliner and power house in my group) was the natural 1st target of mythic H and was obliterated in one round, the others didn't stand a chance afterwards.
I think, I will slab on the Savage simple template and call it a day. My players will be APL 7+ when they meet the trolls, so they might be able to handle him making it the necessary encounter for their ascension.
My greatest concern giving Amazing Initiative to a foe against a non-mythic party. The same is true for the opposite. Result is 1 round combats or heavy re-design of encounters by me.
Seriously considering banning it in its current version.
Ruyan.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Keep in mind that amazing initiative is something monsters don't commonly have. If you have mythic tiers like a PC does, you gain it at the 2nd tier. Only a few monsters gain it if it makes sense to their theme.
I recently discovered this and realized I ran the mythic troll wrong when I playtested it.
Still, the regen alone on the mythic troll is brutal. That is going to keep him standing a few rounds longer if the party isn't prepared to handle it.
Yeah, but having it available (at its current "state") only for one party (PCs or monsters) turns every encounter into a 1-round-wonder.
Ah well, will add my voice to the specific playtest boards.
Thanks for all your input!
Ruyan.
Yeah, but having it available (at its current "state") only for one party (PCs or monsters) turns every encounter into a 1-round-wonder.
Ah well, will add my voice to the specific playtest boards.Thanks for all your input!
Ruyan.
I haven't playtested it, but I'd actually think that it would balance the action economy of one-monster boss fights against a whole party of PCs (especially a 6 person one). That's one of the things that 4e tried to introduce with reactions, IIRC.
Looking at it from that angle, I surely agree. But right now having a monster with Amazing Initiative is a rather rare encounter (barring GM fiat).
Ruyan.