Price check on custom magic item

[Xexyz]

I want to take your standard Wings of Flying and add the following improvements to them:

-Activated as a free action instead of a standard action.
-90ft. fly speed instead of 60ft.

Based on the guidelines of custom magic item creation the closest thing to changing the activation from a standard action to a free action would be to change the pricing from a command word item to a continuous use item, correct? So that changes the cost from 27000 to 60000, I believe, because Fly is a minute/level duration spell and that doubles the price.

As for increasing the speed to 90 feet, the only spell I see that would do so is Haste. The question is how much would that add to the cost of the item, since I'm only trying to get a partial effect of the spell, not the full effect. Simply calculating it as if I was adding Haste as a continuous spell would jack up the total cost of the wings to 180000, which seems out of proportion to what I trying to do.

Is there a way to get the effects I want for cheaper?

[Defraeter]

Xexyz wrote:

Simply calculating it as if I was adding Haste as a continuous spell would jack up the total cost of the wings to 180000, which seems out of proportion to what I trying to do.

Is there a way to get the effects I want for cheaper?

Custom items? You enter in the realm of "abuse possible", so as there are "no true rules" for that, only "guidelines", that's GM's fiat.

Note: you've just to maintain your wings "active" to have continuous effect.

[Oladon]

Xexyz wrote:

Based on the guidelines of custom magic item creation the closest thing to changing the activation from a standard action to a free action would be to change the pricing from a command word item to a continuous use item, correct? So that changes the cost from 27000 to 60000, I believe, because Fly is a minute/level duration spell and that doubles the price.

It doesn't have to be continuous use, but rather "use-activated". You don't need to double the price, since it's not a continuous-use affect. Thus, the suggested price would change from (3*10*1800=) 54,000 to 60,000.

Xexyz wrote:

As for increasing the speed to 90 feet, the only spell I see that would do so is Haste. The question is how much would that add to the cost of the item, since I'm only trying to get a partial effect of the spell, not the full effect. Simply calculating it as if I was adding Haste as a continuous spell would jack up the total cost of the wings to 180,000, which seems out of proportion to what I trying to do.

Based on the guidelines, and assuming your GM allows it, you could add the ability to use haste as follows:

- use-activated, unlimited uses: add 1.5*(3*10*2000) = 90,000 (for a grand total of 150,000)
- use-activated, usable for ten rounds per day in one-round increments: add 1.5*(3*10*2000)/5 = 18,000 (for a grand total of 78,000)

All of this is based on the item creation guidelines and is subject to your GM's approval, as are any other modifications/discounts you request. Let me know if any of the math here doesn't make sense to you.

(Edit for clarity.)

[Xexyz]

Oladon wrote:

It doesn't have to be continuous use, but rather "use-activated". You don't need to double the price, since it's not a continuous-use affect. Thus, the suggested price would change from (3*10*1800=) 54,000 to 60,000.

So you're saying use-activated in this case could be a free action? That's good to hear.

Oladon wrote:

Based on the guidelines, and assuming your GM allows it, you could add the ability to use haste as follows:

- use-activated, unlimited uses: add 1.5*(3*10*2000) = 90,000 (for a grand total of 150,000)
- use-activated, usable for ten rounds per day in one-round increments: add 1.5*(3*10*2000)/5 = 18,000 (for a grand total of 78,000)

All of this is based on the item creation guidelines and is subject to your GM's approval, as are any other modifications/discounts you request. Let me know if any of the math here doesn't make sense to you.

(Edit for clarity.)

Blah, that's the thing I only want the speed increase from Haste, not the other parts. Seems like the most reasonable compromise would be to use Expeditious Retreat instead and bump it up to a 2nd level spell (or just create a 2nd level spell that does what Expeditious Retreat does but affects all movement modes). So if I went with something like that (a 2nd level spell that works for minutes/level) and attached it to the Wings how much would that increase the price?

[ryric]

I think this is one of the areas where the formulas fail. The effect you want is not so powerful that it takes up triple the cost. Honestly, if anything, I'd build a speed increase off of expeditious retreat rather than haste. Remember also that items don't necessarily clone spells exactly, you're looking for a "pretty close" idea to work off of.

The free action activation isn't a big power boost as there is no reason not to leave the wings active all the time anyway. I'd eyeball it as maybe 10k extra for the whole package honestly, and I'm usually pretty harsh when it comes to custom items.

[Oladon]

Xexyz wrote:

So you're saying use-activated in this case could be a free action? That's good to hear.

Correct. Use-activated, based on the existing specific items, is what's used to calculate the "free action activation" items.

Xexyz wrote:

Blah, that's the thing I only want the speed increase from Haste, not the other parts. Seems like the most reasonable compromise would be to use Expeditious Retreat instead and bump it up to a 2nd level spell (or just create a 2nd level spell that does what Expeditious Retreat does but affects all movement modes). So if I went with something like that (a 2nd level spell that works for minutes/level) and attached it to the Wings how much would that increase the price?

There aren't any guidelines for this. Sean has indicated that they're working on a new book to further address crafting & custom item creation, but until that's out, anything such as you're describing is 100% between you and your GM; there are no existing guidelines for modifying/applying only part of a spell affect.

If I were the GM,:

I'd probably use the haste cost and give some discount for only using the speed adjustment; probably a discount of 40% or so (from that affect only, not the whole item). The cost would still be around 114,000.

[Oladon]

ryric wrote:

I think this is one of the areas where the formulas fail. The effect you want is not so powerful that it takes up triple the cost. Honestly, if anything, I'd build a speed increase off of expeditious retreat rather than haste. Remember also that items don't necessarily clone spells exactly, you're looking for a "pretty close" idea to work off of.

The free action activation isn't a big power boost as there is no reason not to leave the wings active all the time anyway. I'd eyeball it as maybe 10k extra for the whole package honestly, and I'm usually pretty harsh when it comes to custom items.

Your proposals are 100% houseruling; he seems to have indicated that he/his GM wants it done with GAW (guidelines as written), so that's what I've given him.

[Dukai]

I agree with using expeditious rather than haste. Let's be honest, the main attraction to haste is not the movement, it's the extra attack and whatnot.

I think your price of 60k seems reasonable, but as others have said, it's your call.

[Xexyz]

Well, in this case I am the GM and am designing this item for an NPC, so I guess I can decide whatever I want. I'm just trying to come up with something that's reasonable in accordance with the published rules so I can maintain WBL guidelines, and in the event the PCs somehow got their greedly paws on it, it's not so overpriced that they could sell it and get more than it's true practical value.

So, if I'm correct the first part would change the cost from 27,000 (3*5*1800) to 30,000 (3*5*2000). The second part would then increase the cost by 18,000 (2*3*2000*1.5) assuming there was a 2nd level spell called Greater Expeditious Retreat that increased all movement modes. So that would bring the total cost to 48,000, with I think sounds reasonable, if still a bit more costly than I would truly value it as, but close enough.

Thanks for the help guys.

[Defraeter]

I've not found similar items which give flying with a speed of more than 60'. The most are at 40'.
And Expeditious Retreat is only valid for Land Speed.

And the "free action" is a "greater power" than you think: the main "defect" of the wing of flying is that it is not "discreet" as it changes you in "an angel".
On other part, free action means "flying" becomes as if the owner has a "fly speed" for the owner: no need to think to "draw the wings" before.

Sure, if i am a player and i find this object, i keep it: too good!!!!

[Xexyz]

Defraeter wrote:

I've not found similar items which give flying with a speed of more than 60'. The most are at 40'.

And Expeditious Retreat is only valid for Land Speed.

And the "free action" is a "greater power" than you think: the main "defect" of the wing of flying is that it is not "discreet" as it changes you in "an angel".
On other part, free action means "flying" becomes as if the owner has a "fly speed" for the owner: no need to think to "draw the wings" before.

Sure, if i am a player and i find this object, i keep it: too good!!!!

Good points. I felt 96,000 buy price might be steep because I looked at it from the perspective of creating a character and purchasing magic items using the WBL guidelines: If you were looking for a way to make your character fly, would you spend the extra 42,000 gold to get the extra 30' of movement and the free-action activation? Personally I'd probably pass on the item unless I was 18th or higher level and had the money to spare.