| KOKingpin |
and I would like it if you guys looked over them and gave me some pointers and tell me what im doing right and what Im doing wrong.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/111373978/Pathfinder-Dancer-Class?secret_password =u4h4hia56f1av8v8kr7
http://www.scribd.com/doc/111373979/Pathfinder-Dragoon-Class?secret_passwor d=2clxdr3gnw9c9pz6dqih
http://www.scribd.com/doc/111373980/Pathfinder-Puppetmaster-Class?secret_pa ssword=1xoibgk627b6djqul4pz
| Drejk |
| +5 Toaster |
while I am not exactly an expert on this stuff I noticed some redundant language in your dragoon class.
fear probably doesn't need the conscious/unconscious stipulation as you probably would not experience fear effects while unconscious anyway.
restricting weapon focus to the weapons they have proficiencies with also seems unnecessary.
charm, see fear
compulsion, same
by the way on your chart at 20th level it says bypass dragon, and i was curious what that was
and one last thing, couldn't you allow the rules for regaining a familiar or companion for getting a new drake (possibly you could use the avenging as requirement first). permanently losing all class features is a little discouraging from playing them
| Motionmatrix |
So we have been playing ffxi, if my eyes are still working correctly. I have not touched it in a while, but I will come over again and take a look at the other two classes, this post I will worry about the dancer, who I know rather intimately.
First question is, why not make it a prestige class since it is an advanced job? I have a notebook with most standard jobs as base classes and advanced jobs as 5 or 10 level prestige classes. Maybe I will get around to actually finishing that project. I will take a look and see what i can upload from it.
Second: where is the unarmed combat? I don't expect a monk combat progression, but at least some base enhancement to unarmed damage (not just punching). For that matter, why do you penalize the dancer with only one attack? She already is going to have a hard enough time doing any dpt with the lower bab and no enhancement to damage until Razor's Kiss (is this from another ff dancer ability? I do not recognize it)
Third: Trance is a cap ability? Wouldn't it make sense as a once a day ability, extra use every 5? Considering this is a base class (and you have like 6 dead levels written in) you should be able to have more than one dance active at a time regularly. The abilities you have currently written could have two, three by level 10, and be on the correct power level. Use the 3 level 75 merit dances as a once a day ability that you choose which one you want when you activate it as a capstone instead.
Fourth: No Aspir Samba effect (maybe 5% chance that spells from allies that target the enemy do not use up their slot? bring it up to 10%), no Haste Samba (allies that attack the enemy get an extra attack automatically when they swing), Curing waltz Divine Waltz and Healing Waltz could all easily be made out of cure effects and a Panacea Effect for Healing Waltz.
Fifth: Spectral Jig doesn't actually do anything similar to the original one until 15th level, and only if you picked it at the right time. Between dead levels, lack of full casting, low dpt, and having to wait until 15th level to have a second level spell, this is painful.
sixth: Steps: Quickstep: lowers AC, Box Step: lowers DR, Stutter Step: lowers spell resistance or grants a neg to saves vs magical effects.
Seventh: for flourishes, you could build off the critical thing with Razor's Kiss and grant charges whenever the dancer crits. a weapon with a bigger critical multiplier grants more charges. Higher level flourishes cost more. Violent Flourish (as a stun effect) should be moved toward the more expensive side, since stun is so powerful in pathfinder. Animated flourish should automatically roll an intimidate check (or some other cha based skill, bluff?) to egg the target to attack the dancer; it builds off the skill monkey aspect which you added (which is pretty cool, and a nice way to make them more than just combat creatures) and also adds a provoke effect without being so blatantly video gamey.
Eight: Make the evasion active at all times. While I understand from a flavor aspect, it actually hurts the class quite a bit when compared to other base classes.
Ninth: JOB TRAITS! this is a very easy way to fill in the dead levels and make the class more balanced. Accuracy bonus (when taking standard action attack, you get a bonus, if you are not going to grant extra attacks), Subtle blow could be turned into DR against enemies you strike (woohoo whirlwind attack). Closed position could kick in automatically for one on one battles.
Tenth: completely disregard any and all if this either a: was not based on ffxi. or b: it just doesn't vibe with what you are going for. I get it, I am protective of my work =)
| KOKingpin |
So we have been playing ffxi, if my eyes are still working correctly. I have not touched it in a while, but I will come over again and take a look at the other two classes, this post I will worry about the dancer, who I know rather intimately.
First question is, why not make it a prestige class since it is an advanced job? I have a notebook with most standard jobs as base classes and advanced jobs as 5 or 10 level prestige classes. Maybe I will get around to actually finishing that project. I will take a look and see what i can upload from it.
Second: where is the unarmed combat? I don't expect a monk combat progression, but at least some base enhancement to unarmed damage (not just punching). For that matter, why do you penalize the dancer with only one attack? She already is going to have a hard enough time doing any dpt with the lower bab and no enhancement to damage until Razor's Kiss (is this from another ff dancer ability? I do not recognize it)
Third: Trance is a cap ability? Wouldn't it make sense as a once a day ability, extra use every 5? Considering this is a base class (and you have like 6 dead levels written in) you should be able to have more than one dance active at a time regularly. The abilities you have currently written could have two, three by level 10, and be on the correct power level. Use the 3 level 75 merit dances as a once a day ability that you choose which one you want when you activate it as a capstone instead.
Fourth: No Aspir Samba effect (maybe 5% chance that spells from allies that target the enemy do not use up their slot? bring it up to 10%), no Haste Samba (allies that attack the enemy get an extra attack automatically when they swing), Curing waltz Divine Waltz and Healing Waltz could all easily be made out of cure effects and a Panacea Effect for Healing Waltz.
Fifth: Spectral Jig doesn't actually do anything similar to the original one until 15th level, and only if you picked it...
My whole thought process while making the dancer was to make it its own class. Thought I felt like I could hardly make ALL of the JAs usable. I also wanted to use as much of pathfinder's trait, feats, etc as possible. Though I really do like your ideas.
The main reason why I made it so while dancing only one attack is usable was because being able to do a full round action while maintaining a dance seems a little overpowered imo.
I really like the idea of the Panacea effect. But haste samba might be a little broken. Can you imagine a fighter getting more attacks at high level play? He would just rip everything apart.
| Motionmatrix |
You did not give them a fighter's base attack bonus, you should not expect the dancer to land every blow. Assuming they land every blow, their damage output still doesn't come close to the rogue (which is lower than a twf fighter). Assuming Waltz is being used, you still won't come close to the attack bonuses of a full melee.
Haste Samba would follow the rules of the haste spell, it does not stack with other abilities that grant extra attacks. Only a twf character will really get the most out the ability (two more attacks per round). Not broken, A 5th level wizard can haste the whole party for a whole battle with one 3rd level spell that does this and more.
Also, assuming you keep samba as is, you need to give better rules for how the drain works, and who receives the health stolen (since you are draining, not just dealing damage).
| Ciaran Barnes |
There is too much to address, so I have decided to offer only a few points.
In general, your weapon proficiencies are too specific. It is not unreasonable to give the dragoon all martial weapons. The dancer's "all piercing one-handed weapons" thing is weird. List some specific weapons, and I don't suggest you make them all piercing.
The dancer's abilities seem erratic. They should also be made more general or open ended to accommodate different character concepts. This is the most interest class though. I would create a dozen or so dances with magical effects and allow the player to choose the ones he or she want at designated levels.
The dragoon loses his defining class feature is his dragon dies. Terrible. Furthermore, a human dragoon can't even ride his dragon until 15th level. Also terrible. I would make this class a class that deals with mounts in general, but different from the cavalier. Have dragons as a choice at higher level.
The puppet master basically gets a construct to fight for him. Kind of boring. When I saw the title of the class I imagined a character that controls others though suggestion, charm and dominate type effects, and maybe illusions too. If you want minimal spell casting, you could build it off of the ranger/paladin 4-level structure. Add in a construct companion and spell-like abilities and you could end up with a more diverse class.
| KOKingpin |
Thanks for all the input. I'm going to work on these classes some more. Eventually I will repost them.
@ Ciaran Barnes - The puppetmaster is built around teamwork with his puppet but I do get where you are coming from. I think I need to focus more on this class like some of the teamwork classes that Pathfinder has.