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In September, 2011, better minds than mine made some proposed changes to Stealth on the Paizo blog.
In subsequent months, better minds than mine poked holes in those changes, pointing out that a change on that scale amounted to a Pathfinder 1.5 change in rules.
I have taken those changes and made my own version of a complete version of them, including all the changes required in other skills and abilities, for possible inclusion in Drop Dead Studio's next product: Rogue Glory.
If better minds than mine could help me know what parts of these new rules work/don't work/need clarifying examples/need rewording, I would really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Adam
(Dex; Armor Check Penalty) You are skilled at avoiding detection, allowing you to slip past foes or strike from an unseen position. This skill covers hiding and moving silently.
Check: Your Stealth check is made on your turn when you want to avoid detection, and is opposed by the Perception check of anyone who might notice you. You usually can only make a Stealth check when you have some sort of cover (except for cover you are carrying, such as a tower shield) or concealment. When you make your Stealth check, those creatures that didn't succeed at the opposed roll treat you as hidden.
When using Stealth in this manner, you make one Stealth roll a round, with your actions applying penalties to your stealth roll as you enact your turn. Some penalties apply to your complete Stealth check, while others only apply to your Stealth check in relation to a specific creature, such as having concealment from one creature but not from another. Positional concealment (being where people wouldn’t expect to look, such as hiding among the rafters or up a tree) can count as having concealment when initiating or ending your turn, provided the creatures making opposed Perception checks did not observe you getting into position. If you perform no actions on your turn and still benefit from cover or concealment, you may choose to keep your previous Stealth check rather than roll another.
A creature larger or smaller than Medium takes a size bonus or penalty on Stealth checks depending on its size category: Fine +16, Diminutive +12, Tiny +8, Small +4, Large –4, Huge –8, Gargantuan –12, Colossal –16.
Stealth Modifiers and DC Modifiers:
Move half your speed as a move action no penalty
Move up to 3/4ths your speed as a move action -5
Move your full speed as a move action -10
Ending your turn with only positional concealment (hiding above or below eye level) -5
Ending your turn without cover or concealment -20
Making moderate noise (picking a lock, opening a door, performing the verbal component of a spell, etc.) -10
Making a melee or ranged attack, or casting a spell that directly affects an enemy. -20
Making violent noise (breaking down a door, loudly ringing a bell, etc.) -40
Invisibility (moving) +20
Invisibility (stationary) +40
Passing through an area of magical silence +20
Action: When you have concealment or appropriate cover, you may attempt to become hidden as part of a move action or a swift action you make, or as a separate move action or swift action of its own. You may not attempt to become hidden as part of a standard action, but if you are already hidden you may attempt to perform a standard action and stay hidden, often by applying an appropriate penalty. You cannot usually perform a full-round action and remain hidden.
Attacking From Stealth: When you are hidden from a creature, you gain a +2 to your attack roll, and that creature loses its bonus to Dexterity (if any.) If you choose to only make a single attack, you receive a -20 to your Stealth check, but remain hidden as long as your Stealth check still exceeds other creatures’ Perception checks. When making a full attack, you only gain the benefits of being hidden for your first attack, after which you are no longer considered hidden.
Abduction: If you succeed at making a grapple check during a surprise round against an enemy who has not detected you, you may make a second grapple check as a free action. If this second grapple check also succeeds, you have successfully stopped the creature from making noise and may move up to half your speed back to cover, taking the grappled creature with you. While you suffer the usual -20 to your stealth check for making an attack, if you succeed at both checks and no creature detects you, they do not see you abduct the target creature (although they will most likely notice the missing creature the following round.)
Hidden: You are difficult to detect but you not invisible. You are only considered hidden to creatures who fail their opposed Perception checks. If you are hidden to a creature, you gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls against that creature, you ignore their Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), and you gain total concealment against attacks from that creature. Hidden creatures cannot be dealt sneak attacks, nor can they be dealt extra damage for being a ranger’s favored enemy.
hidden creatures cannot use gaze attacks. You can always choose to stop being hidden to everything around you as a free action.
Invisible: You are visually undetectable, although you can still be detected by use of other senses. While you are not necessarily hidden, you gain many of the benefits of being hidden, including a +2 bonus to your attack rolls, ignoring your target’s Dexterity bonus to AC, and total concealment, even when creatures are observing you. You gain a +20 to your Stealth check, which increases to +40 when you aren’t moving. The benefits of being invisible do not stack with the benefits of being hidden, and the benefit for not moving with invisibility does not stack with the benefit of sneaking in an area of magical silence. If you are not actively using the Stealth skill, you are considered to have an effective Stealth score of 0 before modifiers (including the +20 for being invisible) are added.
If a creature possesses the ability to see through invisibility, such as by a trueseeing or see invisibility spell, you lose all benefits of invisibility against that creature, but not the benefits of being hidden if you have both. In all other ways, Invisibility is the same as described in the Pathfinder Core Rulebook.
Observed: The creature can see you, or if you have cover or total concealment, they know your exact location (which square or squares you are in.) You are not hidden from a creature who is observing you, and as long as you don’t have total concealment you provoke attacks of opportunity from this creature. A creature observing you may use a swift action to actively observe you, gaining a +4 bonus to all opposed Perception checks with you until the end of the round.
Located: The creature cannot see you, but knows your exact square. Often, you are considered located when a creature fails their Perception check but their ally succeeds and tells them where to aim their attacks. If you were previously considered hidden to this creature (i.e., they weren’t observing you the round previously,) you are still considered hidden from this creature.
Detected: The creature does not know where you are, but does know a creature is hidden nearby. If a creature fails their Perception check by no more than 5, they detect you. Most creatures in combat are considered to detect all those around them regardless of their Perception rolls, as they are expecting immediate attacks. You are considered hidden from a creature who only detects you.
Undetected: The creature has no clue as to your presence, and is also not in combat. You are considered hidden from this creature. A rogue’s ambush ability applies to attacks made against a creature from whom you are undetected.
A creature usually makes their Perception check to notice hidden creatures the first time it enters an area where it could possibly notice a hidden creature, or when a creature first attempts a Stealth check. If his check (adjusted for distance and other relevant modifiers) exceeds the Stealth check of any hidden creature, he observes that creature. In a combat where multiple creatures are using stealth across multiple rounds, a GM may rule that creatures only make a new Perception roll on their own turn, using the same Perception roll for every hidden creature for the rest of the round. A creature may also make a Perception check as a move action to notice any hidden creatures around him, replacing his old Perception checks with the new one.
When sneaking past multiple creatures at once, the GM may also choose to make a single Perception roll for the group, using the highest Perception bonus of the group and adding 2 for each creature in the group after the first (as if they were using the aid another action) instead of making a separate Perception check for each creature.
Creating a Diversion: You can use Bluff to create a distraction as a move action, opposed by the Sense Motive skill of creatures that can see you. If you succeed, you change from being observed to being located until the end of your turn. Creatures who don’t observe you do not threaten you and lose any bonus they might have had against your Stealth or Sleight of Hand skill from actively observing you. Creating a distraction does not make you hidden, but it does improve your ability to obtain cover or concealment to make a Stealth check.
Darkvision and Low-Light Vision: Creatures with darkvision and low-light vision do not automatically discover hidden creatures that enter their visual range, but they do stop creatures from using darkness as concealment when starting or ending their turns hidden. Creatures with low-light vision can see twice as far as normal in dim light, and can see outdoors on a moonlit night as well as they can during the day. Creatures with darkvision negate all benefits of darkness within their darkvision range.
Camouflage: A ranger’s camouflage ability allows him to use the Stealth skill to hide in any of his favored terrains, even if he does not have cover or concealment. However, this only functions as long as the ranger is not being observed.
Hide in Plain Sight: Hide in Plain Sight allows a character to use his Stealth skill to hide, even if he is being observed and has no cover or concealment, so long as he meets the prerequisite condition of his Hide in Plain Sight ability. This prerequisite is usually a specific terrain, proximity to shadows, or some other requirement.
Ventriloquism: A character benefitting from the ventriloquism spell or a successful use of the throw voice feat gains a +4 bonus to using Bluff to create a distraction. If hidden, the character may negate the penalty for casting spells with a verbal component by making his voice sound as if it is coming from another location.
Hellcat Stealth: You can make Stealth checks without cover or concealment and while being observed, although with a -10 penalty.
Heretic’s Judgement: Escape (Su): Each time the inquisitor using this judgment hits an opponent with a melee or ranged attack, she can use a swift action to attempt to create a diversion with her Bluff skill.
Blindsense (Ex) Using nonvisual senses, such as acute smell or hearing, a creature with blindsense notices things it cannot see. The creature usually does not need to make Perception checks to notice hidden creatures or to pinpoint the location of an invisible creature within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature. Any opponent the creature cannot see still has total concealment from the creature with blindsense, and the creature still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. An opponent a creature with blindsense cannot see still gains the benefits of being hidden when attacking the creature with blindsense.
Format: blindsense 60 ft.; Location: Senses.
Blindsight (Ex) This ability is similar to blindsense, but is far more discerning. Using nonvisual senses, such as sensitivity to vibrations, keen smell, acute hearing, or echolocation, a creature with blindsight maneuvers and fights as well as a sighted creature. Invisibility, darkness, and most kinds of concealment are irrelevant, as is the hidden condition, though the creature must have line of effect to a creature or object to discern that creature or object. The ability's range is specified in the creature's descriptive text. The creature usually does not need to make Perception checks to notice creatures or objects within this range. Unless noted otherwise, blindsight is continuous, and the creature need do nothing to use it. Some forms of blindsight, however, must be triggered as a free action. If so, this is noted in the creature's description. If a creature must trigger its blindsight ability, the creature gains the benefits of blindsight only during its turn.
Format: blindsight 60 ft.; Location: Senses.
Scent (Ex) This special quality allows a creature to detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell. Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights.
The creature can detect opponents within 30 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 60 feet; if downwind, it drops to 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range.
When a creature detects a scent, the exact location of the source is not revealed—only its presence somewhere within range. The creature can take a move action to note the direction of the scent. When it is within 5 feet of the source, the creature pinpoints the source's location or notices a hidden creature.
A creature with the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom (or Survival) check to find or follow a track. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10 (no matter what kind of surface holds the scent). This DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry's odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Survival skill. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility.
Format: scent; Location: Senses.
Tremorsense (Ex) A creature with tremorsense is sensitive to vibrations in the ground and can automatically notice hidden creatures and objects as well as pinpoint invisible creatures and objects in contact with the ground. Aquatic creatures with tremorsense can also sense the location of creatures moving through water. The ability's range is specified in the creature's descriptive text.
Vorm the rogue is hidden from a group of orcs. At the beginning of his turn, he uses a move action to move at full speed to a better hiding place, and makes a Stealth check (result of 34 after the -10 penalty) against the orcs’ Perception checks (results of 20, 35, and 8.) Thus, the orc with a Perception check of 30 is now observing him. Vorm then fires an arrow as a standard action at the orc with a Perception check of 20, gaining a +2 to his attack roll and negating the orc’s Dexterity bonus. He also takes a -20 to his stealth check for making an attack (making his new total 14,) and is now being observed by the orc with a Perception check of 20. While the orc with a perception check of 8 normally wouldn’t detect Vorm, the act of seeing his friend shot by an arrow announces the presence of an assailant, and thus the orc is considered to have detected Vorm. However, Vorm didn’t see the hidden bugbear (that made a Perception check of 15,) and ended his turn without cover or concealment to that creature. This brings his Stealth check down to -6 against the bugbear - far below its Perception roll.
Generally, after an admittedly quick read, the rules seem fairly consistent and clear. I loved the part about Abduction, heh...
Just one thing though (for now, at least):
A creature observing you may use a swift action to actively observe you, gaining a +4 bonus to all opposed Perception checks with you until the end of the round.Why is this neccessary, especially since you clarify that they can see you or at least know your exact location (and that you provoke AoO as normal)? This part is a bit unclear, to me at least.
The idea was to allow a more active level of Perception, such as the difference between simply seeing someone on the battlefield, and actively making sure the rogue you noticed can't disappear again.
Example: The rogue jumps behind the pillar, gaining cover and the ability to use Stealth. Guard A is too busy battling the party fighter to notice if the rogue disappears (observing, not actively observing,) but Guard B (who was sneak attacked by the rogue previously) wants to make sure if/when that rogue leaves the cover of that pillar, he can't do so again. He spends his swift action to keep an eye on that pillar, gaining a +4 to his perception check to make sure the rogue can't sneak out and attack him again.
Would you prefer a different term other than actively observe? Or are you saying it doesn't seem necessary to have at all? It's an addition to the rules and can be removed without a problem, it just seemed nice to give people a way to add a bonus, rather than a penalty, to their Perception checks, and helped balance out the new strengths found in a clarification of Stealth.
Almost forgot one:
Shot on the Run and Spring Attack: While technically full-round actions, Shot on the Run and Spring Attack can both be used while hidden, applying the usual -20 penalty for attacking while hidden, and any penalties for speed (-10 for moving full speed, -5 for 3/4ths speed, etc.)
So, in theory, you start your turn behind a pillar, you make a stealth check, you can then move out from behind the pillar to sneak up on an enemy adding a -20 to your check (assuming you move at half speed)?
You only apply the -20 penalty when you attack someone, or at the end of your turn if you don't have cover or concealment.
Ah, so you can basically get right next to someone fairly easily (assuming you do alright on your initial stealth check), and that gives you the chance, even if you fail you new check at -20 to beat them on Initiative and still catch them flat footed?
Sounds like a nice boon to stealth based characters. I like it, particularly the abduction option. On that, what happens on the subsequent rounds? As long as you maintain the grapple they still can't make noise, or does that only last for the surprise round?
Ah, so you can basically get right next to someone fairly easily (assuming you do alright on your initial stealth check), and that gives you the chance, even if you fail you new check at -20 to beat them on Initiative and still catch them flat footed?
Sounds like a nice boon to stealth based characters. I like it, particularly the abduction option. On that, what happens on the subsequent rounds? As long as you maintain the grapple they still can't make noise, or does that only last for the surprise round?
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the above situation. Are you talking about sneaking up to them on the surprise round? If no one sees you, then technically combat hasn't started, so your first attack would start the combat and be on the surprise round. If someone does see you and cries out to alert their friends, then yes, your movement action would be on the surprise round, and you would have to beat them on initiative to deliver a melee sneak attack (unless you had the bandit rogue archetype.) If you're in the middle of combat, you should be able to sneak up to them and attack on your own turn, after which you'd apply a -20 for attacking, plus a -20 for not having cover anymore (effectively ending stealth unless you've got god-like skill.) The exception to this being sniping with a ranged weapon, or using spring attack, which would let you run up, stab them, then run back to cover. In all the above situations, provided they didn't beat your initial Stealth check, they are denied their Dexterity bonus to your attack.
And good catch on abduction. I'll add a section there that as long as the grapple i maintained, they cannot cry out.
This was my own catch, but I'm also adding this line with penalties: Movement penalties are added before you move, while all other penalties are added after you perform the related action.
I've gotten a few likes, but few comments. Does that mean the rules seem to work as intended?
One last bump, just to see if anyone has issues or if it's looking good.