CR1 Sahuagins and CR7 Sea Hag - Did I miss something?

[deazra]

Hey guys.

Although I've played RPGs for like forever, I've only started with Pathfinder a few weeks back and the last few days I worked on converting CR2 Sahuagins and the CR4 Sea Hag to CR1/CR7 for a multi tiered quest I'm working on. The problem is: I'm pretty new to stat tinkering. So I'm not sure I didn't overlook something and I'd rather catch onto possible errors quick, as I don't wanna repeat them. I'd really appreciate it if someone would have a look at the blocks I came up with and leave some feedback. I'll just post the stats that changed and add my comments / thoughts behind them. Thanks in advance.

Sahuagin - CR 1

XP 400 (standard for CR 1)

LE Small monstrous humanoid (aquatic) (as I did a 50% change and the whole small/bigger theme between the hag and the sahuagin works good I decided to create a young "in training" version of the sahuagin for tiers 1-2)

Init +1; Senses blindsense 30 ft., darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +5 (not much change here except the -1 to Perception based on the reduced hit die pool)

DEFENSE

AC 18, touch 13, flat-footed 16 (+2 Dex, +5 natural) (incredibly high AC thanks to the fact that even normal Sahuagin are pretty agile. Natural armor doesn't change with the size reduction, Dex goes up and I get a size bonus of 1 to AC)

hp 9 (1d10+1+3) (very low, should be 2d10 at CR1, but the CR2 already just had 2 HD, so I decided to roll with it, reduced Con, but gave them Toughness instead of Great Fortitude, still rolls pretty ok with the "squishy but agile" concept)

Fort +1, Ref +4, Will +4 (Con -1 and removal of the Great Fortitude feat give them a significantly lower Fort)

OFFENSE

Melee trident +2 (1d6+1), bite -3 (1d4+1) or 2 claws +2 (1d3+1), bite +2 (1d4+1) (changed BAB, Str and size already take care of the lower offense, totalling at 8 avg dmg, slightly higher than usual, but that was true with the 11/13 the CR2 Sahuagin had, too. Removed the range attack. So I think I should be ok here. Oh and they get +1 Attack from the size change)

STATISTICS

Str 10, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 13, Cha 9 (standard stat changes thanks to the size change)

Base Atk +1; CMB +0; CMD 12 (The 1 CMB gets eaten by the size)

Feats Toughness (I really like Toughness here - it gives them at least a little more Survivability)

Skills Perception +5, Ride +5, Stealth +9, Survivial +5, Swim +12 (Reduced by 1 thanks to the missing hit die, size bonus to stealth, lower stealth affects Swim)

Sea Hag - CR 7

XP 3200

CE large monstrous humanoid (aquatic) (more than 50% CR - size change, also it still follows the size variation concept between the Sahuagin and the hag)

Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +14 (Pretty standard, gave her Improved Initiative as one of her bonus feats, raised Perception by 3)

DEFENSE

AC 16, touch 14, flat-footed 11 (+2 Dex, +5 natural) (after the size changes I came up with this and I think it might be too low, especially looking at the pretty standard hp. Any ideas how to improve it without fudging?)

hp 87 (7d10+42+7) (7CR, +6 Con Bonus, Toughness - I really like the feat)

Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +5 (I might be really off here, but the saves of the orginal Sea Hag already seemed off, so I just rolled with it and applied the new stat mods)

SR 15 (I don't think I'd change anything about that, would I?)

OFFENSE

Melee 2 claws +14 (1d8+6), bite +14 (1d6+6) (the claws on the Med. hag were already one category above the usual die roll, so I went with it. And this hag bites, cause why not. Damage averages at 30.5, -1 attack thanks to her new size.)

STATISTICS

Str 27, Dex 14, Con 22, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 15 (standard stat changes courtesy of a now large hag)

Base Atk +7; CMB +16; CMD 28 (the simple result of the stat and HD changes)

Feats Skill Focus (Bluff, Perception), Improved Initiative, Toughness (I liked her as a brawler, so I went with matching - admittedly boring - feats)

Skills Bluff +12, Knowledge (any one) +8, Percepton +14, Stealth +9, Swim +26 (Man - the girl's a swimmer! Almost makes me wish the PCs would meet her underwater. Other changes are based on the 3 added hit die (base of 4+1 as monstrous humanoid) and increased size)

SPECIAL ABILITIES

Evil Eye (Su) and Horrific Appearance (Su) DCs changed to 16

Summary / Final thoughts and questions

The stats deviate quite a bit from the Table: Monster Statistics by CR, but might still be all right, as they're based on the original CR monsters. What I get is a group of young, agile but squishy melee Sahuagin and a very large, easy to hit sea hag clawing and snapping at the PCs.

Sidequestion: Putting 2 of my new Sahuagins into one encounter would mean it's a CR3 encounter (as to this, although the "Table: Experience Point Awards" kinda forbids me from using monsters with more than 265XP per monster in such a group? I'm still a little fuzzy on all those tables and rules. :)

Thanks again, guys.

[MurphysParadox]

One of the easier ways to deal with creature conversions is finding a similar kind of monster at the target CR and stealing that monsters stats (ability scores, saves, AC, hit points, etc). Then you rework all the DCs and bonuses on the original monster. Toss in a few feats (or remove them) based on the creature's new CR, adjust skills, and run with it.

By similar kind of monster, I mean don't pick a fire giant stat block to use when upgrading a fungus, or a erinyes' when uplifting an ogre. General guidelines is to look at attack types (ranged vs melee), save set (which are good), and stat block (high and low attributes).

This isn't a perfect science. A far easier mode is to pick something that feels about right and just replace the name, appearance, and description of special abilities.

As for your question about CR - it is a fast-and-loose kind of rule. It breaks down at low and high numbers; really it works as a good starting point. There are also aspects of environment; a shark's CR isn't exactly the same on land as in the sea (to use a bit of absurdity).

Now, as to your monsters, hmm. AC 18 is rather high for a CR 1. A level one character that is built for melee may have a +4 or +5 to hit, meaning they only have a 30-35% chance to hit these guys. Ranged characters are probably on the low end of that so early on. Hybrid characters are running a bit weaker still, maybe around 25% chance to hit.

I would drop the NA bonus to 2 or 3. This is still above the average for a CR 1 but not crazily.

The Sea Hag's AC is an auto hit at level 7 and players will drop some serious damage around then. Easiest way to boost it is a few more points of NA. Alternatively, add some dodge bonus in there because why not. Or more Dex bonus.

[deazra]

Ok. So I'm basically cool to change whatever I like as long as it makes sense and the stats themselves are coherent in the end?

[Mortagon]

For the Sahuagins I would just add the YOUNG template.

The Srd has a CR 7 sea hag druid you might consider using. Its stats can be found HERE.