Smuggler's Shiv - What Level Should the PCs Be When Facing Yarzoth?


Serpent's Skull

Silver Crusade

*Spoilers*

I'm hoping someone can help me clear up a point of confusion about what level the PCs should be when they head into the final encounter (note - not the dungeon, but the final encounter).

Final Encounter:

In the beginning of the Smuggler's Shiv module it states:

Advancement Track
"Characters should be 1st level when they begin “Souls for Smuggler’s Shiv.” By the time they are ready to explore the interior of Smuggler’s Shiv and confront the Thrunefang cannibals, the PCs should be 2nd level. They should be 3rd level when they are preparing to enter the Azlanti temple, and should finish the adventure at 4th level."

Here's how I (generally)interpret the final sentence:

When the Players get ready to fight Yarzoth, they are 3rd level and should only cross the threshhold to 4th sometime after they defeat her

I support this by looking Yarzoth's CR, which is 6. Referencing the APL rules, if the PCs are 3rd level when they fight her, it makes the encounter Epic level. But, if they are 4th when they fight her, it just makes it a Hard encounter. Since she's the BBG, then it's my thinking the fight should be Epic thus supporting my interpretation.

A friend, who also happens to be a DM, sees it the other way, that the PCs should be 4th when they fight her.

Is that a correct interpretation?

I need to know, bc if the PCs should be 4th, then I need to adjust her CR (or the encounter itself) so that the encounter has the appropriate EPIC feel.

On a side note, it seems like PCs are significantly more powerful than the monsters they face, even several CRs above them. Is it just my imagination, or are the PF monsters under-tuned? I've only run PF games (and mostly for lvs 1-5) for a short while so I'm wondering if others see this as well, or is this just my limited experience?


She kicked my party's butt at L3 and we'd had little trouble with the other two hard encounters of the island (mother and red devil). Halfling rogue couldn't bypass the blur, and a couple failed saves brought the barbarian's str down to useless. Bad rolling though.

I'd think L3 at full resources or L4 at 65% resources would be about right.


She was a tough encounter with my party of level 4 characters. Her high touch AC makes it hard to hit with ray spells (scorching ray, for example), and with both blur and mirror image and the ability to hit for poison that stacks and increases in difficulty... and requires two saves to get rid of...

This encounter ended due to some lucky crits, but the party's rogue had 1 HP left (and you can't sneak attack a blurred creature normally anyways), and the party's sorcerer had an effective Str of 2 (-6 penalty by the time she died).

And this was with the fighter passing his Dominate Person save. Easily could have swung the other way if he was fighting on her side for a few rounds. I'd keep her CR 6 even if your party was level 4.

Silver Crusade

Sloan, Martin - thanks for the input. I think it helps confirm that my interpertation is not unreasonable.

And Sloan - my party was the same on the two earlier "hard" encounters. They only had a slight struggle with the Mother, and they killed the Red Devil in two rounds (the lv3 barbarian criticaled it for 38 points!). I'd spent 1.5 hours on a hand drawn map for that encounter, so I was crushed... :D

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