I need a little spiritual advice.


Homebrew and House Rules


Hello everyone. I am (again) working on further detailing a campaign setting that I've toyed with for the last 8-9 years or so. I probbably should have abandoned it years ago but I am stubborn I suppose lol. Oh and also it's not like I've worked dilligently on it for the last decade, just an off and on project that is on again. With that in mind I need some advice on my pantheon. First I will explain in very brief terms, the way my pantheon works so far. Then I will describe the two options to fill it in that I am considering. Thank you ahead of time for reading the whole thing (oh and yes, this is influenced heavily by J.R.R. Tolkien's book the Simillarion, which I may like better than even LOTR.

The alpha diety is called Irmendoll. From him were spawned 4 Avatars. These each recieved a part of Iremendoll's vision for creation of the world. They are:

Elonna- Holy, Avatar of light, gave gift of goodness and divine magic.

Winnarow- Nature Avatar, formed the physical world, created divine (druid) magic. Made animals plants and sentient races. All about balance.

Vinar- This one is kinda tough to explain. She is the Avatar of souls. She is the Charon of my world, except that she is also the Hades, but not evil. She created the seas and waters of the world. She also gave souls to the sentient. A portion of the flavor text for her reads, "all souls must in the end travel the seas of death to await the pronouncement of her doom in her ancient halls" (Think Mandos from the Simillarion, for those who've read it). Again though, not evil.

Majel- She is chaotic! When the other Avatars poured their blessings into creation she (the most powerful avatar) created a counter blessing to each of the other avatars blessing, sort of a pervsion of their work. She tainted Ellona's blessing to create evil and tyranny, evil divine magic, and arcane magic (power without needing loyalty to anything). Winnarows she tainted to create Abberations, Unnatural creatures, drought famine ect. Vinar- tainted to create immortality and undead creatures, liches ect. She is not really evil but more of a chaotic spoiler to the others.

Option A: Assign domains from the CRB to these Avatars and leave it be. My concern with this option is that there is not REALLY an evil diety for those campaigns, oh evil exsists to be sure, and Majel and even Winnarow to a point could be worshipped by evil characters. But they are not truly evil dieties. There is conflict still between Avatars, especially Majel and there is no reason two clerics of Ellona for example couldn't diasagree to the point of battle.

Option B: Create another layer of sub-dieties. I will call them paragons, and they will be the courtesans of the avatars if you will. I will make 10 or 12 of them of various alignments, each will have an associated avatar, and I will assign domains as seems appropriate. This will create a lot more options for players, and perhaps add some more options for conflict. I like the idea of no directly evil dieties though; its something different and I think will allow for interesting RP opportunities.

Either way, there will still be evil clerics, and the lovely evil monsters of the Bestiarys will still exsist. I would like to keep the Pantheon relatively simple, as in my world the Avatar chooses you, not the other way around. You are literally called to service in the clergy by one of the Avatars (if the player rolls a cleric). Adding a lot of extra paragons will water down the "power" of this event if you will. But if my idea is totally horrible and un-playable than I will change it and add the paragons.

There is a lot more I could share with you about my pantheon, and this is a very rough sketch. I appreciate your time though, and don't want to take advantage. If you read all this then thanks a lot!


I submit to youan idea used by a publisher in the early days of the OGL:

The divine beings have no actual alignment. Churches, and their individual dogmas, can and do have alignments.

This creates the opportunity for different followers of Winnarow to have diametrically opposed goals and to be in opposition without surprising anyone except those who expect the divine outlooks to be imposed on the world instead of people manipulating the divine outlooks through time.


I rather like hustonj's suggestion.

You can also add to it: Example: Majel is known as Kirsli among the elves and is worshipped/viewed in this fashion <insert characteristicts>; she is known as <whatever> among the dwarves, etc.

I think my self-designed setting has 21 actual gods in the pantheon with various "Aspects" that are worshiped by other races.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I really like the alignmentless deity idea. It can also lead to political intrigue within religious organizations.

Alternatively, or possibly additionally, have cults of evil (and possibly non-evil) clerics. You can have demon worshipping cults, aberration worshipping cults, undead worshiping cults, ancestor worshiping cults, cults of personality worshipping sorcerers, witches, wizards, clerics, oracles, bards, even philosophies or ideals, etc.


Thanks, thats a good idea!

Grand Lodge

hustonj wrote:

I submit to youan idea used by a publisher in the early days of the OGL:

The divine beings have no actual alignment. Churches, and their individual dogmas, can and do have alignments.

This creates the opportunity for different followers of Winnarow to have diametrically opposed goals and to be in opposition without surprising anyone except those who expect the divine outlooks to be imposed on the world instead of people manipulating the divine outlooks through time.

That publisher being Paradigm Press and the setting known as Arcanis, most known by the former Living Arcanis Network Campaign.


LazarX wrote:
hustonj wrote:

I submit to youan idea used by a publisher in the early days of the OGL:

The divine beings have no actual alignment. Churches, and their individual dogmas, can and do have alignments.

This creates the opportunity for different followers of Winnarow to have diametrically opposed goals and to be in opposition without surprising anyone except those who expect the divine outlooks to be imposed on the world instead of people manipulating the divine outlooks through time.

That publisher being Paradigm Press and the setting known as Arcanis, most known by the former Living Arcanis Network Campaign.

Most very specifically, yes. I figured I should try not to pimp PCI here under a reasonable trade for not pimping Paizo on PCI's forums.

Not that anybody named Huston knows ANYTHING about PCI and Arcanis . . .. <wink>

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