One of my house rules is the multiplier to carry for size is also the multiplier to bonus Str dmg. A simple rule, I have found, that puts the fear of dragons back into players.
Normally when they pass the dragon fear check the players would then just charge right in.
After one encounter with a very large dragon, with the Str bonus in place, the fear was back in place. The party barbarian got stomped into the ground in one stomp. They proceeded with a whole lot of caution from then on.
Any thoughts on this house rule?
going from medium to gargantuan is already a huge bonus to damage.
Size Table
The creature will have a STR score 24 points higher than before, which is +12 to hit and damage per swing.
Sorry. It may have been misleading seeing as how I only used a dragon as an example. It works for any creature. Basically I am saying size matters.
My argument is Bigger equals more mass (hence more wt. carried) hence more damage. Smaller equals less mass (hence less wt. carried) hence less damage.
I see where the Strength is boosted up to +8, but that would only be a +4 to damage. Unless I am reading it wrong, or missed the advancement you are talking about, Matthias. (sorry if I missed it)
Bigger dice don't always equate to bigger damage and most players that are at a level to take on larger opponents (individually or singularly) they won't think twice about taking full damage from the creature (in my experiences).
When I 'balanced' the damage with the carry they played a little more careful.
Still, LazarX, you bring up a good point and I will look into it again.
I see where the Strength is boosted up to +8, but that would only be a +4 to damage. Unless I am reading it wrong, or missed the advancement you are talking about, Matthias. (sorry if I missed it)
Bigger dice don't always equate to bigger damage and most players that are at a level to take on larger opponents (individually or singularly) they won't think twice about taking full damage from the creature (in my experiences).
When I 'balanced' the damage with the carry they played a little more careful.Still, LazarX, you bring up a good point and I will look into it again.
You are reading the chart wrong, each size bonus stacks with the last, as does each penalty.
This isn't a personal attack, but honestly if your characters aren't even concerned with a dragon encounter as is with the changes in PFRPG, you're playing a "dumbed down" dragon. The power of a dragon isn't in its ability to stand toe to toe with the party and swap blows, its in its ability to basically control the battle. A black dragon in a swamp should scare a party, its ability to submerge and still use its breath weapon on the party while the party has to deal with line of effect and movement issues. Flying, reach, 6 attacks with a 27+ STR with a full BAB and a selection of spells. It shouldn't be a fast or easy fight.
Yea each size category increase nets you the additional bonuses beyond what is listed so yea, +24 str for gargantuan from medium.
Also agree with skylancer, Dragons in their home turf or with any sort of prep time (even 1-3 rounds) are scary as hell. Especially big ones with buff/damage spells, flyby attack, and of course a wicked breath weapon. As a GM you will need to make sure that you think ahead for a dragon encounter and not flip to the page they are on only when the party enters their room/lair. I would drop 2 to 4 CR from the encounters exp/treasure (bigger they are and more spells they have the higher the drop in CR) if you did not pre-plan it.
Now, I gotcha. Thank you for clearing this up for me.
Before I knew of this ruling is when I made this change, but now that I know of it...well, it looks like I will have to make some changes again.
I rethought the situation. According to the scale chart it doesn't matter about the size or mass of an individual. If they have a Strength of 24 or 48 the bonus is the same from small to large and beyond.
What I am talking about is taking into account the size of a creature. By using the carry weight multiplier with the bonus Str damage it puts things into perspective, size wise. It isn't necessarily dumbed down. It is just that much more dangerous.
I do thank you for the input, just the same. The chart is still extremely useful.
Comparing damage output of more or less humanoid-like creatures, I just use a human with a greatclub and advance size by using size adjustments, overall being +8 str every size category.
1d10 +3 : avg 8.5, medium, 1x1, str 14
2d8 +9 : avg 18, large, 2x2, str 22
3d8 +15 : avg 28, huge, 3x3, str 30
4d8 +21 : avg 39, gargantuan, 4x4, str 38
6d8 +27 : avg 52, colossal. 6x6, str 46
medium to large roughly x2.1
medium to huge x3.3
medium to gargantuan x4.6
medium to colossal x6.1
Seems to roughly relate to the size increase creatures have on the (battle)map if you look at damage output, power attack will tend to increase damage as bigger creatures have more HD and thus better AB, more HD also tends to be translated in higher ability scores overall.
Still some creatures seem to be estimated fairly roughly and have pretty low strength for their size, they might be on the low end of their size category though, in some cases I tend to increase strength a little.
If you want to make dragons physically more fearsome, maybe just apply the advanced template to your dragons and increase their CR by 1.
A single level in barbarian can go a long way too, giving a net gain of +8 strength and constitution while raging making it's attacks and breath weapon that much more dangerous, as a GM I'd probably scrap armor, weapon and shield proficiency and enhance it's natural armor bonus by 2 instead.
It makes sense going with barbarian seeing as how beasts should lean more towards 'beast'. Thanks for the input.
The issue I (personally) have with the attributes is the actual bonus to Str damage does not increase with size, but carry does. To me and the party, thus far, like using the carry multiplier on the Str damage as well. It just makes sense to us. That gives a larger minimum damage that befits a larger creature. In our opinion.
Still I appreciate the input.