To me, Weapon Finesse just seems like it needs a little bit of a kick. Allowing you to substitute dex for str on damage as well as attack makes dex too good, but what if it where tied to two separate stats instead? I was thinking of having weapon finesse function so that with the appropriate weapons, you may use your dex mod to determine your attack bonus and your int mod to determine your damage bonus. Thoughts? I figure this would mesh well with both magus and duelist, and a lot of the classes that make use of weapon finesse like skill points.
Now, slightly more complex...
I was looking at the rogue and thinking about how it's often called the weakest class in PF, then I talked to a few of my friends who insist that sneak attack makes them capable of the highest damage output in the game (I have since educated them on the matter). It got me to thinking, though, that if rogues really aren't a dps class, why do we use sneak attack to pretend that they are? What if, instead, we removed sneak attack and played up a rogue's tenancy to fight dirty and debilitate enemies in combat? So I've been trying to think of an alternative system that would eliminate sneak attack from the game entirely. Doing so would require more tweaking than I've done, especially to prestige classes that grant sneak attack, and to certain prerequisites, so for now, just consider it a rogue archtype and see what you think.
So, what do you think?
Rogues using this nameless archtype do not get sneak attack. Everything here replaces it, and, hopefully, powers them up a little bit in the process.
The main point of this rogue type is crits and critical feats. They crit a lot, but they can only do so with small weapons and in special circumstances. They get bonus critical feats without meeting the steep prereqs, but they must meet special conditions to use them. This rogue, instead of trying to keep up with a fighter or barbarian in damage, works on controlling and debilitating his enemies. So...
At 1st level, the rogue gains Critical Focus as a bonus feat. The rogue does not need to meet the prerequisites for this feat, and it applies to all light weapons. The rogue only benefits from this feat when wearing light armor or no armor, and only when attacking a target that is denied it's dex bonus to AC or that the rogue is flanking, or that has one of the following conditions: blinded, prone, dazed, confused, dazzled, unconcious, helpless, entangled, disabled, fascinated, nauseated, paralyzed, cowering, pinned, sickened, frightened, panicked, or stunned.(this list is pretty important to the class, please let me know if you think there's anything that should be added to or removed from it).
At 3rd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the rogue is able to more effectively attack targets that are unable to properly defend themselves. When wielding a light weapon, the rogue increases his threat range by 1 when he is flanking his target, the target is denied their dexterity bonus to AC, or they are suffering from one of the following conditions: blinded, prone, dazed, confused, dazzled, unconcious, helpless, entangled, disabled, fascinated, nauseated, paralyzed, cowering, pinned, sickened, frightened, panicked, or stunned.
At 7th level, the rogue increases the threat range by 2 against opponents that are denied their dex bonus to AC or who are: blinded, prone, dazed, confused, dazzled, unconcious, helpless, entangled, disabled, fascinated, nauseated, paralyzed, cowering, pinned, sickened, frightened, panicked, or stunned.
At 11th level, the rogue increases the threat range by 3 against opponents who are: Blinded, confused, unconscious, helpless, nauseated, paralyzed, cowering, pinned, panicked stunned
At 15th level, the rogue increases the threat range by 4 against targets who are: Unconscious, helpless, nauseated, paralyzed, cowering or stunned
At 18th level, the rogue may attempt a coup de grace against targets who are: nauseated or stunned as a full round action. In all cases, this increase to threat range DOES stack with other effects that increase that increase the threat range of a weapon, such as improved critical, but not with the prior iterations of this ability. The rogue simply uses the highest increase in threat range that they could apply in any given circumstance.
At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, a rogue gains a bonus critical feat. He does not need to meet the prerequisites for this feat. He may only use this feat when wearing light armor or no armor and may only apply it to critical hits with a light weapon. He may only apply the effects of these feats to opponents he is flanking or who are denied their dexterity bonus to AC, or who are suffering from one of the following conditions: blinded, prone, dazed, confused, dazzled, unconcious, helpless, entangled, disabled, fascinated, nauseated, paralyzed, cowering, pinned, sickened, frightened, panicked, or stunned. At 4th level, the rogue may select Bleeding Critical or Sickening Critical. At 8th level, the rogue adds Deafening Critical, Staggering Critical, and Tiring Critical to the list of of feats they may select. At 12th level, the rogue adds Blinding Critical and Exhausting Critical to the list of feats they may select, and at 16th level, the rogue adds Stunning critical to the list.
First, Weapon Finesse seems just fine without tinkering with it, though IMO it is a feat tax for rogues. Also there is already a feat somewhere to add DEX bonus to damage.
Removing SA and giving (Modified)Critical Focus at 1st level.
Seems weak.
At 3rd level, a +1 critical confirmation bonus with an additional +1 per 4 additional levels.
Seems weak.
At every 4th level, a bonus critical feat.
Seems weak.
Overall, rogue is weaker, and may be spending all her time trying to stick some condition on an opponent.
Perhaps add a bonus rogue talent in place of every two(or one) SA d6?
Hope this helps.
I agree with Queen Morgan on this, although increasing the critical threat range could potentially be abused.
What I did to answer the rogue conundrum was to create an archetype that replaced additional dice of sneak attack with antipaladin cruelties.
I've always thought rogues should be debuffers, not damage dealers (the full BAB and caster classes seem to have that under control), so I came up with this option. (I'll take suggestions for a better name though, right now "cruel rogue" is just a working title.)
Cruel Rogue (Rogue)
Some rogues prefer to focus on debilitating their enemies rather than simply trying to kill them.
Cruel Strike (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a cruel rogue selects a cruelty from the antipaladin’s list. This cruelty is applied to the first sneak attack the cruel rogue makes each round. The target receives a Fortitude save to avoid this cruelty. If the save is successful, the target takes damage as normal, but not the effects of the cruelty. The DC of this save is equal to 10 +1/2 the cruel rogue’s level + the cruel rogue’s Intelligence modifier. Creatures immune to sneak attack are immune to this ability.
A cruel rogue must pick from the 3rd level list of antipaladin cruelties. At 6th level they may pick from the 6th level list, and so on.
A cruel rogue must possess the major magic rogue talent in order to select the Cursed cruelty.
This replaces the additional die of sneak attack damage at those levels.