Need help rounding out the party for Skull & Shackles


Skull & Shackles


I'll be playing the Skull & Shackles AP coming up fairly soon and I'm having trouble coming up with a character to round out the party. We've got 5 character total, including my as yet to be determined character. So far the rest of the party consists of a Bard, a Cleric, a Witch, and a Magus. I posted this thread here because I'm hoping people that have played the AP could help recommend something that would best fit into the group and be useful in as many combat and non-combat situations throughout the AP as possible.

Normally I'd go with a Fighter, Barbarian, or Ranger, but since I've read that people have had success with non-traditional parties I don't want to be locked into thinking I have to take one of those three classes to fill out the group. I'd appreciate any help and advice on solving my dilemma.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Buccaneer Gunslinger from Advanced Race Guide might be fun. Or a Rogue (Pirate)/Fighter (Corsair) multiclaas.

Ultimately play whatever tickles your fancy. This AP is the bomb diggity for different playstyles.


I'd agree to that...we have a Knife Master Rogue, a Barb, a Sea Hag, and after two deaths(btw the AP can be very brutal!) I've settled into a Half-Drow Heavens Oracle. We are having a blast, and finally getting used to the very unique nature of this AP. Whatever you decide to play...make sure they are at home on a pirate ship.


Some melee power is required, especially in the early parts of the AP.

Light armour is a must during most parts since on a ship climbing, swimming etc. clearly are very common occurences. Profession sailor is also a good idea, since it being a "pirate" AP things will happen on... SHIPS !

Also skill points will by your best friend - one should really take a class or combination with 4+ points, especially in the early stages of the AP.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If you use Vikingson's ideas then your best bet is either straight Ranger, or Ranger (Freebooter)


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
If you use Vikingson's ideas then your best bet is either straight Ranger, or Ranger (Freebooter)

I'd personally refrain from rangers, because many of their powers are so... passive.

My personal take would be on a melee oriented bard/fighter. Morale boosting songs or streams of freaky insults, combined with a somewhat wicked twohanded weapon, power attack and assorted nastiness. Think "warrior poet". With a Falchion...

Personally, I have always loved the ability of bards to vanish for a brainblowing invisible twohanded power attacking charge. Including Furious Focus, Vital Strikes and of course, Cleave^^.

While still being an all around nicely charismatic guy. With skill points. Self healing.... UMD... and other comfort spells... Also possibly useful in social scenes as aid or alternative approach. Just my 2 cent

Alternatively : the group seems slightly underpowered in the ranged magical damage department, unless we are talking an elemental witch here. In that case, consider something with enough INT (skillpoints) and AoE spells. Given the peculiar deadliness of AP-1, this would be... a strong recommendation


The Witch in question is currently planning on playing a Sea Witch, but after seeing what the archetype gives, I'm going to try and convince the player to just re-skin a regular Witch and choose a thematically appropriate patron. One other option for the Witch might be the Scarred Witch Doctor. If the Witches player is interested in that, I might be able to convince the DM to allow it for a Half-Orc, although theoretically, the Orc Blood feature should qualify them automatically. Not sure what patron they plan on taking.

Which do you think the party could use more of, ranged damage (magical or otherwise) or melee capabilities?


FWIW, I actually plan to run a straight ranger - switch hitter for the strong melee and ranged combat options and light armor.


Jubal Breakbottle wrote:
FWIW, I actually plan to run a straight ranger - switch hitter for the strong melee and ranged combat options and light armor.

That actually sounds kind of interesting, although I kind of like the sound of the Gunslinger part a bit more. I'm wondering how best to fit the two together to make a Gunslinger who can fight with a pistol in one hand and a sword in the other.


Quote:
how best to fit the two together to make a Gunslinger who can fight with a pistol in one hand and a sword in the other.

It's really difficult. I've read many threads attempting it. The new Human Buccaneer archetype of gunslinger tries by giving the Pistol and Sword feat without prereqs.

The bottomline that I've arrived at is that you need a hand free to reload. This is especially true at high levels for multiple attacks per round. Unless of course you want to go alchemist to grow a new arm, somehow get an advanced firearm revolver, or carry a dozen pistols.

So I gave up and went with switch hitter and Quick Draw. The bonus is that I can get a comp longbow for backup in case of equipment availability issues.


Jubal Breakbottle wrote:
Quote:
how best to fit the two together to make a Gunslinger who can fight with a pistol in one hand and a sword in the other.

It's really difficult. I've read many threads attempting it. The new Human Buccaneer archetype of gunslinger tries by giving the Pistol and Sword feat without prereqs.

The bottomline that I've arrived at is that you need a hand free to reload. This is especially true at high levels for multiple attacks per round. Unless of course you want to go alchemist to grow a new arm, somehow get an advanced firearm revolver, or carry a dozen pistols.

So I gave up and went with switch hitter and Quick Draw. The bonus is that I can get a comp longbow for backup in case of equipment availability issues.

One of the ways I was looking to get around that was to use a Weapon Cord with my sword so I could drop it as a free action, reload, and as a swift action take the sword back up. Can you outline your switch hitter build for me so I can see what it looks like a few levels in?


I think Dudemeister has the best idea... either the Buccaneer Gunslinger (if you're allowing gunpowder in your campaign) or a Corsair.
One of my PCs is running a Corsair and is having a great time with it (other than being cursed to look octopoid like Davy Jones, that is. ;D )

If there ever was an AP designed with the Corsair in mind, Skull and Shackles is it.


Human bonus = Power attack (+4 Str two-handed weapon)
1st = quick draw
3rd (Ranger combat) = rapid shot
3rd = rapid reload (pistol) with alchemical paper = free action to reload a pistol
5th = deadly aim
7th (ranger combat) = many shot or improved precise shot
7th = I don't know yet... depends on where the campaign is

With alchemical paper cartridges, he'll be able to rapid shot with his pistol +4/+4 (+3 BAB +2 Dex +1 MW -2 RS) for 1d8 damage vs. touch AC OR composite longbow +4/+4 (same) for 1d8+4 (+4 Str) vs. regular AC

At 5th, he adds -2 to both attacks for +4 damage

At 7th, he adds another full attack (manyshot) or ignores cover and concealment. I'll make the call when I see how often cover and concealment become an issue. Pretty respectable. I thought about point blank mastery but the reloading causing an AOO anyway, so it would be useless unless stretched interpretation...

Compared to a full Gunslinger at 7th level, he loses Dead Shot, Targeting, and Startling Shot which are all very powerful. On the other hand, he gains two Favorite Enemies for potentially +4 attack & damage that he can give half to his mates, a Favorite Terrain (water), a strong melee option for all the previous levels, spells (specifically triggering healing wands), and +2 skills per level.

cheers


Jubal Breakbottle wrote:

Human bonus = Power attack (+4 Str two-handed weapon)

1st = quick draw
3rd (Ranger combat) = rapid shot
3rd = rapid reload (pistol) with alchemical paper = free action to reload a pistol
5th = deadly aim
7th (ranger combat) = many shot or improved precise shot
7th = I don't know yet... depends on where the campaign is

With alchemical paper cartridges, he'll be able to rapid shot with his pistol +4/+4 (+3 BAB +2 Dex +1 MW -2 RS) for 1d8 damage vs. touch AC OR composite longbow +4/+4 (same) for 1d8+4 (+4 Str) vs. regular AC

At 5th, he adds -2 to both attacks for +4 damage

At 7th, he adds another full attack (manyshot) or ignores cover and concealment. I'll make the call when I see how often cover and concealment become an issue. Pretty respectable. I thought about point blank mastery but the reloading causing an AOO anyway, so it would be useless unless stretched interpretation...

Compared to a full Gunslinger, he loses Dead Shot, Targeting, and Startling which are all very powerful. On the other hand, he gains two Favorite Enemies for potentially +4 damage that he can give half to his mates, a Favorite Terrain (water), a strong melee option for all the previous levels, and spells (specifically triggering healing wands).

cheers

Awesome, thanks! Just out of curiosity, what kind of point buy and stats are you using? We're going to be using a 20 point buy so I'm not sure I'd be able to get the 18 Strength and have decent other ability scores.


20-point buy:
Str 16+2=18
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 9 bump at 12th
Wis 14 bump at 4th and 8th
Cha 7

He will have Intimidate at all levels plus class to offset Cha dump, so he can motivate the troops like a good marine commander.

The Int dump is offset by human skill bonus and the 12th level bump washes him in skill points.

The Wis bumps are to max out 3rd level spells and Will save, which isn't great.

cheers


Jubal Breakbottle wrote:

20-point buy:

Str 16+2=18
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 9 bump at 12th
Wis 14 bump at 4th and 8th
Cha 7

He will have Intimidate at all levels plus class to offset Cha dump, so he can motivate the troops like a good marine commander.

The Int dump is offset by human skill bonus and the 12th level bump washes him in skill points.

The Wis bumps are to max out 3rd level spells and Will save, which isn't great.

cheers

Thanks again! I think I might go with a similar build to yours, either that or a Barbarian/Alchemist Berserker type character.


vikingson wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
If you use Vikingson's ideas then your best bet is either straight Ranger, or Ranger (Freebooter)

I'd personally refrain from rangers, because many of their powers are so... passive.

My personal take would be on a melee oriented bard/fighter. Morale boosting songs or streams of freaky insults, combined with a somewhat wicked twohanded weapon, power attack and assorted nastiness. Think "warrior poet". With a Falchion...

Personally, I have always loved the ability of bards to vanish for a brainblowing invisible twohanded power attacking charge. Including Furious Focus, Vital Strikes and of course, Cleave^^.

While still being an all around nicely charismatic guy. With skill points. Self healing.... UMD... and other comfort spells... Also possibly useful in social scenes as aid or alternative approach. Just my 2 cent

Alternatively : the group seems slightly underpowered in the ranged magical damage department, unless we are talking an elemental witch here. In that case, consider something with enough INT (skillpoints) and AoE spells. Given the peculiar deadliness of AP-1, this would be... a strong recommendation

A little late with a reply to this, but what kind of build would you suggest for a Fighter/Bard? Our group still hasn't gotten together to finalize our characters and I still haven't managed to come up with an idea that's stuck yet.


Bakunin wrote:
A little late with a reply to this, but what kind of build would you suggest for a Fighter/Bard? Our group still hasn't gotten together to finalize our characters and I still haven't managed to come up with an idea that's stuck yet.

Personally; I am not too much into specific builds because each campaign and GMs take on it is different, but this one basically involves :

Bard X / Fighter 1 (or more), with a focus towards Power Attack, Cleave, Furious Assault, Vital Strike (and further versions of it). Dodge and Mobility might... help, but are not necessary. Improved Critical is also a worthy additional choice

Concept is based on using Bard spells to "Vanish", then charge your target with Power Attack for a single strike. Furious Assault and the attack bonus from Vanish should see the target being struck for massive damage from Power Attack and assorted bonus. Possibly followed by an equally wicked Cleave (and Great Cleave etc).

Rinse (new Vanish) and repeat. Becomes really cheap with Greater Invisibility (bard 10) of course.

More fighter levels provide more access to Feats, but cost skill points

Good acrobatics is a must. You might also want Stealth. Nimble Moves (+Feat Chain) should sort through difficult ground (often a matter how your GM handles it) if needed.

If you play with DnD 3.5 Skill tricks, look for those affecting charge-angle and terrain over which one can charge, since they cost less than a feat,

Bard archetypes as you like, though I'd recommend something with a strong personal attack bonus (such as the Archaeologist : which also gives Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Rogue Skill Tricks and a songless aka silent bonus to damage and attacks ). I would not pick Arcane Duelist, because you will need the spells to empower your charges.

Do pick a two handed weapon, Falchion for Crits, Greatsword otherwise although since we are talking Pirates, something stabby might not be too bad, for fights in water.
Str and Dex are needed, Cha would be good for bonus spells and social effects.
Item of choice : ring of invisibility

Race : feeling cheap, I'd recommend an outsider (Elemental races, tieflings) who by virtue of being outsiders, automatically have all martial proficiencies. Demon-spawn Tielfings... should probably work very well, providing a nice bonus to Str and Cha, costing some Int.

But basically, let your vision of the concept drive your pick of race.

Character concept : as you choose... basically an invisible deathwind, chopping heads and limbs. And still has some solid skill points for social interaction.
We actually had the concept twice in our campaigns : as a barbarian/bard spearchucker melanesian maiden and as a Skald of Thor, who professed himself to be the "Thor's invisible Hammer"

But remember that this concepts power derives from invisibility (and being able to cast it) to avoid AoOs, to approach opponents and deliver massive power attacks due to boni related to being "out of sight". Furious Assault (Feat available at BA+6) might take care of some of that, but until then... turn invisible)

There are of course a lot of social possibilities for someone who goes transparent as often as he can be^^


Thanks for the advice on the Fighter/Bard, I appreciate it. Still not quite sure what I'll play, I'm afraid I've got analysis paralysis from thinking about all the different options for a character. Not sure if I'll look at the Fighter/Bard as my starting character since we've got a Bard in the party, but he could be a fun character to introduce in case we have a party death or two. Hopefully I can stop over thinking things and just commit to a character to start out with and go from there.


Bakunin wrote:
Thanks for the advice on the Fighter/Bard, I appreciate it. Still not quite sure what I'll play, I'm afraid I've got analysis paralysis from thinking about all the different options for a character. Not sure if I'll look at the Fighter/Bard as my starting character since we've got a Bard in the party, but he could be a fun character to introduce in case we have a party death or two. Hopefully I can stop over thinking things and just commit to a character to start out with and go from there.

Good Luck. As a hint from myself - I always consider what I want to play, as a "type", with some abilities and powers I'd like (say : do I want arcane or divine powers ? Does this character serve the gods or is he an independent.. etc etc.. and blah^^) and which might serve the group well in the overall mix. THEN I go and press things into a concept of class, race, stats and feats. often with surprising results

Latest concept : knife throwing socially adept male "rake", some arcane frippery, with good knowledges, part of a circus troupe.... which turned out to become an Alchemist in the end. Yes he can proficiently throw knives^^ Getting played a good lot and he actually is the artillery to our more social bardic enchanter.

The Bard concept above : well it tried to fullfill your wishes of universal compatability. How you "shape" it, that will be your call. Don't call it a "bard". It's a specialised fighter/brawler after all, not an entertainer.


Thanks again for your help, Vikingson, I appreciate it. Your Fighter/Bard was definitely something I'd consider, I'm just afraid of stepping on the other players toes at all right now with my character, no matter what I would call it. That's the same reason I haven't really looked into any Oracle, Cleric, or Magus based builds either right now. I want to let the other players outshine me in their own niche.

I did finally come to a decision on what I wanted to play though. In the end, no matter how alluring the siren song of a Beastmorph/Vivisectionist Alchemist was, I decided to go for a switch hitter Beast Master Ranger. Ever since seeing the Ranger Iconic character in some of the art for the Skull & Shackles AP, that image had just stuck with me. Though the idea of my character alternated between a Ranger or a Fighter/Rogue, the Ranger and his animal companion won out. I figured having a pet along for the AP would help us out with melee damage and not have me needing to worry all the time about positioning for a sneak attack.


nice melee choice.
I'd just mention that sneaking/bringing along any animal companion would prove.. very problematic for the initial part off AP-I

I'd also - without spoilering much - mention that animal companions should be able to function... ahem.. underwater.

So choose wisely

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