Goblin Squad Member
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Is there a vision as to which elements of the Pathfinder-Online-MMO will be such that they make a Pathfinder-RPG player like the PFO game?
Is the world and lore of Golarion (and the fantasy setting in general) the only thing that's supposed to draw Pathfinder-RPG fans to take a look at PFO, or do you Goblinworks guys have any other nifty ideas that will make this game appeal to someone playing PFRPG?
(Consider this a generalization of my previous question - Goblinworks-Vision-for-the-Adventure-Content)
cheers!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Is there a vision as to which elements of the Pathfinder-Online-MMO will be such that they make a Pathfinder-RPG player like the PFO game?
Is the world and lore of Golarion (and the fantasy setting in general) the only thing that's supposed to draw Pathfinder-RPG fans to take a look at PFO, or do you Goblinworks guys have any other nifty ideas that will make this game appeal to someone playing PFRPG?
(Consider this a generalization of my previous question - Goblinworks-Vision-for-the-Adventure-Content)
cheers!
Similar to the other post, I do have to point out one thing, the game will appeal to SOME fans of the PFRPG, but absolutely not all, one reason is, the tabletop itself is nowhere near consistent. In the tabletop it is more then possible for somoene to say, enjoy the a kingmaker adventure path run by Andius, and absolutely hate a self written adventure by myself and vice versa. Anyone who has played at more then one table, can tell you, 10 different tables can appeal to 10 completely different kinds of people.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm not too worried about the actual setting, like the monsters used and the lore present in the game. I would like to see some influence of the ruleset in the game, though. I'm not saying adhere to the tabletop ruleset. I am saying that I'd like to see classes, feats, skills, etc in the game. If you earn these differently and if they work differently that's fine.
For Example:
Power Attack - I don't care if it doesn't work by taking a penalty to attack rolls for a specific increase to damage rolls. I'd like to see it in the game as some sort of decrease in accuracy for an increase in damage. Or even on a cooldown.
Acrobatics - I know skills will work differently in the game, but I'd like to be able to improve on my ability to tumble, balance, and jump as my character improves. If there is an acrobatics skill, and it's something you can set to train over a period of time EVE style, that'd be fine. I'd hate it if this training, however, was limited to rogues, monks, barbarians, and bard archetypes though. I've played plenty a nimble fighter that trained in acrobatics despite it not being a class skill.
Fireball - d6 per caster level might not work in the game, depending on how casters work, and even if there will be caster levels. I'm ok with that. But I do want to see a small ball of fire fly forth and explode into a fiery area of burny death, hurting indiscriminately... or not, depending on how you guys do friendly fire.
I guess, overall, I want whatever ruleset you use to be familiar enough to a regular tabletop gamer that we'd feel like we understood the game without needing to understand the specifics of the rules. If I played some sort of fighter / wizard hybrid character, and I saw Power Attack as one of the abilities I could train in, I'd want to have a pretty good idea what it was even if I didn't read the ability description. If I saw Fireball, Magic Missile, or Web, I'd already have a general idea what those spells were and would feel pretty confident taking them and knowing I'd be able to use them the way they've always been intended to be used.
I think it depends in what draws you to Pathfinder. If it's the system then you might not like the MMO as we know it won't be using the ruleset. However, if it's the campaign setting, Goblinworks appear to be sticking to that as rigidly as possible.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not saying this is the argument you are making Bilbo but one thing that frustrates me about many PF enthusiasts getting very angry that this game is not a direct adaptation of the PFO game is that neither are most MMOs based on other franchises.
Star Wars Galaxies and Lord of The Rings Online were based on books and movies. All they copied was the theme and the lore.
World of Warcraft was based on an RTS. All it copied was a bastardized version of the lore.
DC Universe Online, Stark Trek Online, Age of Conan, Knights of The Old Repulic, hell even Elder Scrolls Online all diverge greatly from the content they are based around.
For once this is not a bad precedent set by the MMO industry. Not everything you see in a tabletop or console game translates well into an MMO.
An MMO based of a movie/book/game is about experiencing and exploring the world you have learned about through that other medium. If you try to adhere perfectly to the idea of "Lets make the game feel as true to playing a Star Wars character from the movies as possible." or "Lets make it feel as true to the P&P PF model as possible." and ignore the fact that this is an MMO designed to be played by thousands of people on a massive scale it is going to fall flat on it's face.
I think GW's approach is "Lets make an MMO, that is a great MMO, and pack it full of as much rich lore and flavor from Pathfinder and Golarion as we can while still focusing on making a title that will be fun in the MMO format, and fill a need in the theme-park saturated MMO market."
I'm expecting they will scratch the back of loyal Pathfinder fans whenever possible but they aren't going to lick their feet. It seems like many PF fans are unhappy that they aren't doing the latter.
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Goblin Squad Member
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the easier it will be for me to transfer my character from Online to Tabletop the better I will like the MMO.
I'm aware the MMO will not follow the ruleset, but at least some thought should go into the convertability in either direction.
It's already been clearly stated that this is not in the works. Especially so in the case of importing from the tabletop to the MMO.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Is there a vision as to which elements of the Pathfinder-Online-MMO will be such that they make a Pathfinder-RPG player like the PFO game?
I think you're asking about mechanics rather than flavor. We've already discussed many such things:
* Alignment
* Characters with class levels
* Saving throws (which we're calling "resistance checks")
* 6 core attributes that map to the 6 core attributes in the tabletop game
There is one big system, the combat system, which we haven't designed yet, so I can't tell you if there will be things like hit points or armor class. I can't tell you if there will be attacks of opportunity, threatened zones, reach weapons, or how cover & concealment will work (if at all).
I can tell you that we won't use the d20 + integer modifiers system of the tabletop game. That system creates too large an arc of probabilities for the game we want to make (in other words, it creates 20th level fighters who never lose when they duel 1st level fighters - we don't want that kind of difference in character power level).
I can tell you that we won't use the combat action system of the tabletop game. You won't be selecting, in 6 second increments, things like falling prone, moving 5 feet, reloading a crossbow, etc. Things will be much more fluid.
I can't tell you which magic spells, magic items, or monsters we'll use, or how similar those things will be to their tabletop versions. I can tell you that we're going to try and capture the flavor and intent of those things when we use them. If we call a spell Fireball it will be recognizable. Fireball will be a spell that does a lot of damage in an area. It won't do "xdx damage per level", so it will not be mechanically identical.
I can tell you we're not going to use the skill system from the tabletop game. We also won't use the economic system. Or the crafting system. Or the overland movement system, or the chase system.
RyanD
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Goblin Squad Member
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* Characters with class levels
Maybe I am misinterpreting, but I had thought there would not be actual levels in PFO? It would be purely through archtypes (which I assume what you mean by 'classes') and skills.
I can tell you we're not going to use the skill system from the tabletop game.
I'm glad that is the case. I understand some other people may want more uniformity between PFRPG and PFO, but if the skill system is going to be how I am envisioning, it would be very limiting to only have the skills from PFRPG. I am thinking we are going to have a LOT more than that. I am guessing something more along the lines of EVE.
We also won't use the economic system. Or the crafting system.
Thank god for that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can tell you that we won't use the d20 + integer modifiers system of the tabletop game. That system creates too large an arc of probabilities for the game we want to make (in other words, it creates 20th level fighters who never lose when they duel 1st level fighters - we don't want that kind of difference in character power level).
This makes me very happy. I knew that the intent was to keep the playing field from being nearly as off as the P&P game in the event of PVP run-ins, but having it so that a level 1 character has even a 1-10% chance in a fight against a capstoned character, is awesome news that I am very happy to hear.
Yes, you're misinterpreting.
wait... are you saying he's misinterpreting on the side that there will be actual levels, or misinterpreting in terms that you were more reffering to merit badges there rather than levels? Or something even further that i am missing, (and if the last, if you could elaborate that would be awsome).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Is there a vision as to which elements of the Pathfinder-Online-MMO will be such that they make a Pathfinder-RPG player like the PFO game?I think you're asking about mechanics rather than flavor. ...
There is one big system, the combat system, which we haven't designed yet, ...
I can tell you that we won't use the d20 + integer modifiers system of the tabletop game. ...
I can tell you that we won't use the combat action system of the tabletop game. ...
I can't tell you which magic spells, magic items, or monsters we'll use, or how similar those things will be to their tabletop versions. I can tell you that we're going to try and capture the flavor and intent of those things when we use them. If we call a spell Fireball it will be recognizable. Fireball will be a spell that does a lot of damage in an area. It won't do "xdx damage per level", so it will not be mechanically identical.
I can tell you we're not going to use the skill system from the tabletop game. We also won't use the economic system. Or the crafting system. Or the overland movement system, or the chase system.
I was not asking about mechanics. I was simply wondering how you'll try to cater to the PFRPG crowd as this game is called Pathfinder Online after all. (I knew and agree that translating d20 isn't an option -should've made that clearer)
I like your answer. It shows that there are more ways to cater to the PFRPG crowd than just the golarion lore.
I do wish you all the best with designing the combat system, I certainly think it's one of the tougher issues you face :-)
cheers!
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's already been clearly stated that this is not in the works. Especially so in the case of importing from the tabletop to the MMO.the easier it will be for me to transfer my character from Online to Tabletop the better I will like the MMO.
I'm aware the MMO will not follow the ruleset, but at least some thought should go into the convertability in either direction.
yeah, I know
I can tell you that we won't use the combat action system of the tabletop game. You won't be selecting, in 6 second increments, things like falling prone, moving 5 feet, reloading a crossbow, etc. Things will be much more fluid.
fluid is good, but one thing I really like about tabletop is that my actual RL reflexes don't influence my characters survivability.
I'm not a PC gamer with perfectioned mouse/cursor coordination and blind typing on the keyboard.A slow gamer should be able to play a quick and nimble character.
and a quick gamer shouldn't be able to use the equivalent of dextrity as a dump stat to overcompensate by fast mouse and keyboard control.
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Goblin Squad Member
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At the same time, though, I do want some level of player skill to have an impact on the game. Dodging away from attacks or raising a shield to block would be super neat, and combat wouldn't become dull and boring after a few hours of pushing a button and waiting until things die.
So skills are in the game, but won't work like the tabletop game. As in, no skill points upon leveling, but maybe training in skills over time via the EVE-esque training mechanism? I think I saw this in one of the blog entries. Will most of the skills in the tabletop game make some sort of appearance in PFO? Climb, Acrobatics, UMD, etc? What about social skills like Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate? Will these be in the game, and will they be useable against NPC monsters? It would be really neat if, instead of fighting a goblin tribe and forcing them out, you could reach a diplomatic agreement with them to up and move, or hire them to attack a rival's fort, mining operation, etc.
I realize I'm rambling way off topic, but stuff like that happened all the time in the Kingmaker Campaign, which is sorta the inspiration for PFO.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... and combat wouldn't become dull and boring after a few hours of pushing a button and waiting until things die.
It is extremely important that combat not feel like chopping wood. If I just use the same rotation over and over until my enemy is dead, combat is going to suck.
One thing I think might be cool is having reactive opportunities in combat where a certain skill determines how much time you have to react.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Personally, I'm hoping they keep something like feats in the game; small, cool abilities that you gain as you go up in level.
And I'm with DropBearHunter and Nihimon 100% .... I don't want the game to end up being "he who clicks fastest (or has the best hack installed to autoclick) wins."
It would be really, really keen if some element of what the character has available as skills/maneuvers/feats/whatever is reflected rather than only how skillful the player is.