Hey there, i have been fiddeling with some new items, made a new economy that i think reflects how common magic items are in the setting. These are mainly meant for the Ebberon setting, but they could easily be used in any other high-magic setting.
Here is the new economy:
There are now 5 types of coin: Platinum, Gold, Silver, Copper piece and Copper bit. Gold takes the place that Platinum had before, Silver takes the place of Gold, Copper pieces takes over for Silver and bits takes over for the old Copper Piece. One can still earn ones Profession skill a day in Silver, and rare stones, such as rubies, maintain their old values in Gold.
And some of the stuff i have cooked up:
1. Zil Powder: Zil powder was made halfway into the Last War by Zilargo Alchemists that was tasked by House Jorasco to make a cheaper and more effective method of healing wounded troops. What they ended up with was zil powder.
While this purple and yellow powder is a potent healing agent, there are some unfortunate side effects; when it is used, until the wound closes it feels like it is on fire, just after it has been salted, filled with iodine and washed off with half a gallon of Karnathian vodka. Suffice to say, most pass out from the pain, others simply can’t do anything but scream or puke their guts out, or both. Also, the powder leaves a nasty looking purple scar tissue where applied. The color fades after a month or two, but the scar stays.
Zil Powder can also be applied to any healing potion, making it more potent, as if cast with the Empower metamagic feat, if one does not mind the horrible taste (DC 20 will save to swallow, DC 20 fortitude to keep down). The fact that the powder is cheaply made and can, if needed patch even the most grievous wound together means that it is commonly used by most physicians that deal with common folk
Effect: When applied to an open wound, zil powder starts acting 1 round later, giving the recipient fast healing 1 for 1 minute per dose used. While under the effects of zil powder, the recipient must take a DC 18 fortitude save every round +1 to the DC per round to a maximum of 28, not to fall unconscious for 1d10 minutes and a DC 20 will save each round he´s not unconscious to keep from becoming nauseated but merely sickened. If the recipient reaches maximum wounds, the effects end immediately. After the effects of zil powder wears off, the recipient is exhausted until he has had 8 hours of rest.
Cost: 150 silver for 1 barrel of 50 doses (10 pounds)
Craft: Craft (alchemy) DC 16, 50 silver worth of ingredients, an alchemists table and 2 days work for a batch of 10 pounds
2. Elemental Gauntlet: During the Last War, many new weapons were made, but none were as popular with spell-casters and officers as the Elemental Gauntlets.
This bulky, finger-less gauntlet, normally decorated with expensive metals, cover the lower forearm down to the back of the hand and while it is a bit heavy, allow for easy finger movement, and does not hinder arcane spell-casting or other delicate hand/finger movement.
On the back of the hand, a tiny khyber shard is imbedded with an elemental bound to it. When activated (move action) a small sphere representing the elemental bound in the gauntlet (Lightning for air, rock/crystal/metal for earth etc.) manifests four inches in front of the hand, and floats there (Air and fire gauntlets gives off light as a torch).
All gauntlets have 2 settings: Ranged, a ranged touch attack enables the user to fire off projectiles made from the element at his enemies. For purpose of using ranged weapon feats that does not work with a ranged touch attack, the attack count as a normal ranged weapon attack. The range increments are indicated below. The Close setting forces the elemental to form the small sphere into the shape of a melee weapon, making the gauntlet into a close combat weapon with the reach quality. Air and fire gauntlets differs to earth and water gauntlets, as air and fire elements are with melee touch attacks and earth and water uses normal melee attacks. What also makes an air and fire gauntlets different from other weapons is that they substitute the damage bonuses from strength with charisma when used for close combat. The ranged setting also uses the user´s charisma modifier for damage increase on all gauntlet types.
When activated, the user chooses one of these settings, should he wish to change it, he can do so as a standard action.
An elemental gauntlet is always masterwork and can never be enchanted with a magical effect that utilizes an opposite elemental effect (Earth – Air and Fire – Water).
Elemental Gauntlet: Type: Binder Light. Price: 1600 silver Weight: 2 lbs
Air: Ranged: 30ft Close: Reach dmg: 1d6 Crit 18-20x2 type: Electrical
Earth: Ranged: 15ft Close: Reach dmg: 1d12 (2d6 Close) Crit 20x4 type: S/P/B
Fire: Ranged: 25ft Close: Reach dmg: 1d8 Crit 19-20x3 type: Fire
Water: Ranged: 20ft Close Reach dmg: 1d10 (1d12 Close) Crit 20x3 type: Cold/S/P/B
Craft: Requires Craft Arms and Armor + Bind Elements (or buying an already bound elemental for 500 silver making the full price 1100 silver) and 800 silver
Please tell me what you think, is it too much? Too little?
PS: I apologize for any strange sentences and grammatical no-nos.
Here is the new economy:
There are now 5 types of coin: Platinum, Gold, Silver, Copper piece and Copper bit. Gold takes the place that Platinum had before, Silver takes the place of Gold, Copper pieces takes over for Silver and bits takes over for the old Copper Piece. One can still earn ones Profession skill a day in Silver, and rare stones, such as rubies, maintain their old values in Gold.
This doesn't really change the economy. You just shifted everything up and renamed everything; which only serves to confuse. For example, you created a new bottom rung and then shifted everything up. You say you still base craft and profession on silver, but silver is now gold, so why not go with the simpler and easier to manage idea of just shifting everything up 1 step and adding something new like "aether crystals" or even "magi-koins" or "spell-tokens" or if you're an oldschool player, "electrum". This also saves you the effort of having to re-price everything in the books; because what is a "copper-bit" worth in goods and services? Did everything stay the same listed cost (like x sp for a meal) and thus actually get tons more expensive, or did everything get moved down a notch (from silver to copper and copper to bits)?
Honestly, this part sounds like a mess, and it made it harder for me to evaluate the rest of your posted items. So we should probably discuss this part first. It's not really necessary since in a high magic world where magic is common, you could easily expect certain amounts of inflation. I mean, it's far more likely that people are both resistant to common problems like famines or droughts, and maybe people charge more for mundane things than they used to, to make up for the magic item demands.
And some of the stuff i have cooked up:
Cheap Healing
Firstly it is near useless. A DC 20 save to swallow it, and another D20 save to keep from throwing it up (presumably wasting the effects of it and the potion)? You'd waste less time and effort using regular CL 1 CLW potions at 50 gp a piece. Virtually no common person would ever be able to use these, so with the exception of exceptionally powerful adventurers (those with fortitude saves in excess of +10), there would be virtually no market for this stuff.
Secondly, does this stuff only work with potions? You know potions can also be in the form of oils and balms. Is there anything preventing you from mixing the powder with say an oil of cure critical wounds and thus ignore that it tastes like Jeigo's soup from Princess Mononoke?
Thirdly, the effect of dumping the powder directly on a wound seems overly complicated and not very well thought out. You have to make a DC 18-46 fortitude save every round to avoid falling unconscious for 1d10 minutes, and a DC 20 will save each round to avoid being nauseated for the duration of the effect, otherwise sickened? Firstly, there is really no reason to keep demanding such ridiculous saving throws; nor does it make much sense since your typical person has a Fortitude save between -1 and +1.
Thirdly, how did you come up with the price of this? You know that a wand of cure light wounds is 750 gp (or 750 silver for you) and has 50 charges of around +5 HP worth of healing. There's already a sustainable supply of cheap healing. Especially since you tenthed the price of everything with your economy adjustments. Was there any rhyme or reason taken into the pricing of this item, or was it an ad-hoc pricing that you just set because you found it aesthetically pleasing?
Also, Craft (Alchemy) does not work like you are suggesting: "Craft (alchemy) DC 16, 50 silver worth of ingredients, an alchemists table and 2 days work for a batch of 10 pounds" is not how it works. The cost to create is correct based on what you've posted, but the time it takes to create it varies by the alchemist. You complete check result x DC in silver pieces per week of work, so someone with a +6 Alchemy taking 10 would complete a barrel of your powder in 1 week (16 x 16 = 256). Characters can craft faster by willingly increasing the Craft DC. For progress by the day, you calculate the result in the next currency down (copper pieces), which results in about 6 days worth of work on average.
There's a lot of stuff causing my rule-obsession to flare up here. O.<
Eberron Guns
I'm not sure where to begin with these. Ranged or melee weapons that allow spellcasting and for some unexplained reason use the wearer's charisma modifier to determine bonus damage? You must really love Bards and Sorcerers, I guess. You have them statted out as if they were normal weapons, and most deal all three physical damage types and some deal three physical damage types and an elemental type. Firstly, that's bizarre. Secondly, it's pretty useless as DR and similar stuff is ignored by energy attacks. The "close" after the range makes no sense unless we're talking spell ranges, in which case it would be 25 ft. + 5 ft. / caster level; while if it's actually supposed to be like a real weapon, then that means their maximum range is x10 whatever you listed unless noted otherwise.
In addition to basically being all-powerful weapons for anyone who doesn't dump Charisma, they're also touch-attacks and benefit from effects like Deadly Aim? Good God man. That would be cheap for 1,100 gp. This would definitely create a large shift towards Charisma-focused martial characters, as well as virtually everyone else. Boy, a weapon usable both in melee and ranged, with touch attacks, that you can use Power Attack and Deadly Aim with, that ignores Damage Reduction, leaves your hands free, comes masterwork, and can be further enhanced?
Hands down the absolute best weapon that you could possibly wield. Especially if you're a Bard or Sorcerer. Ironically, even at a -2 Charisma, these would be amazingly solid weapons for Fighters to wield, since assuming they can train in them as a weapon group (they definitely look like a weapon group), simply because they will basically never miss without rolling a one. Armor is basically useless in a world that these weapons are rolling around in, since anyone who has a few pennies to their name (or was that nickles, half-pennies, or ground hazelnuts?) will be sporting one of these on each arm.
My biggest curiosity is how you came up with the pricing for these items. But let's address one thing at a time.
Okay, first off with the economy.
I wanted the feeling of gold and platinum coins to have more weight and have the feeling that they were something more exclusively used by the nobility and rich merchants.
I can see your confusion about prices, i hadn´t clarified that.
I might have to take another hard look on that.
In regards to the powder, i can see what you are saying, maybe just a DC 18 fortitude save to stay awake, and remove the bit about potions would be more reasonable.
I think i might look up the alchemy crafting rules again. Never write new items up at 1:30 in the morning.
And last but not least, the gauntlets. Yes I were worried a bit about them. First with the charisma. In ebberon, when you work with elementals, you usually use your charisma to manipulate them.
I thought it appropriate.
Secondly, the table i made for the weapons seems to have smashed together a bit. Close:reach indicates that it is a reach weapon in melee, something I think I might remove.
The melee touch attack thing is only for 2 types of gauntlet, Air and Fire, and I have been thinking of making them regular old melee attacks and you made me quite sure that i should.
Now, these weapons are supposed to substitute guns in my ebberon, hence the ranged touch attack. I think I just went a little overboard with the "Rule of Cool"
Thanks for the help, and your time. I might have some time to make some changes during the weekend. I´ll post what I come up with.
Okay, first off with the economy.
I wanted the feeling of gold and platinum coins to have more weight and have the feeling that they were something more exclusively used by the nobility and rich merchants.
I can see your confusion about prices, i hadn´t clarified that.
I might have to take another hard look on that.
It's worth considering. It makes it a bit confusing. If you'd like to reduce the amount of actual physical coin that is going around, you could introduce vouchers as a currency. If memory serves, banking is very popular among the dwarfs in Eberron, and it seems likely that people might trade in non-metal currency, such as bank tokens; which would cut down on the actual amount of physical coin that gets passed around; but could be traded freely, similar to the way modern society uses dollar bills.
It's also worth noting that the appearance that mundane classes use a lot of gold is an illusion. While it doesn't specifically spell it out in Pathfinder, the 3.x core books had some useful information concerning currency. The gold piece is rarer than it seems in the game because it's the primary currency used by adventurers. Now, one of the core assumptions is that adventuring is a high-risk high-reward profession, and adventurers are expected to get rich (in fact, it's one of the most common reasons to become an adventurer). While the game uses measurements in gp for things like Craft and Profession checks to see incoming currency; the majority of the world deals in silver and copper pieces for most common transactions.
For example, when an untrained laborer makes 5 gp by taking 10 on an untrained profession check, the laborer is likely not getting paid in actual gold pieces. He might instead receive 50 silver pieces, or a combination of silver and copper pieces. A gold piece is likely as rare to him as a $100 bill is rare to the common working man in America; which isn't an unfair benchmark when you compare the cost of common services (such as food and inn stays).
There's also the fact lots of trade likely happens in a non coin format. Trade goods exist in the game. A farmer that makes 28 gold pieces per month taking 10 on his Profession (Farming) check might actually be amassing wealth in the form of trade goods such as tobacco, livestock, and so forth. He can then trade those resources as if they were coinage due to the way trade goods work.
The people who will actually trade in gold pieces on a regular basis actually ARE the rich nobles, merchants, and adventurers. It may just be that you see gold pieces being the primary currency in the books for things like weapons, armors, and magic items, and so forth, and getting a certain impression that isn't necessarily the correct one.
Most weapons, armor, and magic items are specialized tools used by the elite. Most martial weapons are specialized, expensive, and used by professional warriors. The weapons favored by the more common folk would be things like clubs, spears, staffs, slings, and other simple weapons which are cheap. If you look at the amount of money that a typical 1st level warrior has (see Pathfinder: Creating NPCs - NPC Gear), they will have enough money to afford a longspear, a sling, some studded leather armor, some clubs, some grenadelike weapons (like alchemist fire or acid flasks), and maybe a potion (maybe a healing potion, oil of magic weapon, enlarge person, or delay poison).
If you're interested, I wrote a blog post discussing economics in 3.x D&D and Pathfinder, which evaluates how the game rules seem to expect money and such to get around.
In regards to the powder, i can see what you are saying, maybe just a DC 18 fortitude save to stay awake, and remove the bit about potions would be more reasonable. I think i might look up the alchemy crafting rules again. Never write new items up at 1:30 in the morning.
I hear you there. I fall into the trap of working on stuff really late too sometimes (often filled with mistakes too, of course!).
A single DC seems more reasonable. Alternatively, if you wanted, you could model it after poisons. It certain sounds like it works like a poison, only healing instead of harming (and the knocking people unconscious and inflicting pain sounds kinda poisonous). If that was the case, you could set the DC and frequency as desired (maybe a DC 18 save 1/minute, or DC 10 save 1/round) to avoid falling unconscious.
I actually think the idea of something you could mix into a potion or oil to enhance the healing effect is a nice idea. Potions and oils are generally quite bad in GP to HP ratio anyway as it is (I mean 750 gp gets you an average of 18.5 Hp of healing from a potion of cure serious wounds). Allowing you to mix 'em up wouldn't be overpowering, and I think would be very interesting. The question is trying to find the right balance and getting it written out in a way that feels fitting.
In fact, you could make mixing it with oils a practice started with the powder because it causes less pain (or masks the terrible flavor) and enhances the healing effect. Thus people would really want to mix it with potions and oils. Maybe oils of healing are more common because of this, since they would be easy to administer the powders with.
The real trick, of course, is trying to figure out what it's worth vs other healing opportunities; comparing drawbacks and GP to HP ratio; and stuff like that. You might even consider adding it as an optional spell component for healing spells (allowing healers to empower or maximize their healing spells by consuming a certain amount of powder when they cast their spells); which would make healing a little more attractive, I think (it's not that great normally).
And last but not least, the gauntlets. Yes I were worried a bit about them. First with the charisma. In ebberon, when you work with elementals, you usually use your charisma to manipulate them.
I thought it appropriate.
I see where you got the idea now. I do think removing the Charisma to damage effect would be prudent, however. It would be like expecting Fighters to add their Int to damage because a wizard used Spellcraft (an Int based skill) to create their magic sword. :P
Secondly, the table i made for the weapons seems to have smashed together a bit. Close:reach indicates that it is a reach weapon in melee, something I think I might remove.
It does seem a bit redundant. There are melee weapons that can be used at range (daggers for example). Listing them as melee weapons and then listing a range increment should be enough, as long as you explain their special rules in the item description.
The melee touch attack thing is only for 2 types of gauntlet, Air and Fire, and I have been thinking of making them regular old melee attacks and you made me quite sure that i should.
Now, these weapons are supposed to substitute guns in my ebberon, hence the ranged touch attack. I think I just went a little overboard with the "Rule of Cool"
Rule of cool is a good rule, but cool can get a bit over the top. For many people Aragorn from the Lord of the Rings films is cool. Meanwhile, Dante from Devil May Cry is also quite cool. However, one kills orcs with a sword, the other turns into devil that flies around shooting lightning and kills world-destroying devils with his enormous lightning blade and twin handguns Ebony and Ivory, and gets impaled on random objects twice before breakfast with little to no harmful effects.
In other words, "cool" is a really broad scale. :P
Personally, I think if you want a ranged touch attack of a semi-magical source, I think you might consider making those items into minor wondrous items (which they already are, basically). I'd give them two modes, touch and ray; and price them as a use-activated 1st level spell at-will (about 2,000 gp baseline, or 1,000 gp to create). We'll say they're conjuration (creation) based so they ignore SR as well as DR (resistances apply normally). Set the damage at 1d6 for the energy versions and 1d4 for a non-energy type (such as earth, which might fire conjured crystals). Then create add-on crystals that can be attached to the base model to power it up.
Here's an example; using the psionic power crystal shard as a basis for the item.
Khyber Gauntlet (Crystalspike)
Aura faint conjuration; CL 1st
Slot hands; Price 2,000 gp
=============== Description ===============
This gauntlet encases the hand and forearm and looks like some sort of living metal, with khyber shards jutting from the glove across the back of the wrist and forearm. When worn, the khyber shards sink into the gauntlet, magically penetrating and bonding with the wearer's arm, until time for the glove to be removed (this process does not harm the wearer, and its arm is unharmed when removed). The wearer may use the gauntlet to make armed melee touch or ray attacks that deal 1d4 piercing damage ignoring spell resistance and damage reduction (but not hardness). The ray has a range increment of 30 feet (maximum 300 ft). These gauntlets count as a light manufactured weapon for the purposes of making additional attacks (such as due to a high base attack bonus, or when two-weapon fighting) and effects (such as the Weapon Finesse feat). They cannot, however, be enhanced as magical weapons.
=============== Construction ===============
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, crystal shard (psionic power); Cost 1,000 gpKhyber Power Shards
Aura faint conjuration; CL 1st
Slot none; Price 4,000 gp (least), 7,000 gp (lesser), 10,000 gp (standard), 13,000 gp (greater)
=============== Description ===============
These crystals may be attached to any Khyber Gauntlet. Simply holding the crystal to the gauntlet and willing it to attach causes it to dig into the gauntlet and fuse with it, until it is removed in the same way. These crystals increase the overall strength of Khyber Gauntlets, with the crystals ranging based on their potency (least, lesser, standard, or greater crystals). Only one crystal can be attached at a time. The crystals affect the gauntlets based on their type, as follows:
Least: A least crystal increases the damage of the gauntlet by +1 die (1d6 becomes 2d6).
Lesser: A lesser crystal increase the damage of the gauntlet by +2 dice (1d6 becomes 3d6) and increases the base range increment by 5 ft.
Standard: A standard crystal increases the damage of the gauntlet by +3 dice (1d6 becomes 4d6) and increases the base range increment by 5 ft.
Greater: A greater crystal increases the damage of the gauntlet by +4 dice (1d6 becomes 5d6) and increases the base range increment by 10 ft.
=============== Construction ===============
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item; Cost 2,000 gp (least), 3,500 gp (lesser), 5,000 gp (standard), 6,500 gp (greater)
Replacing Craft Wondrous with the item creation feat of your choice. Thoughts?
Thanks for the help, and your time. I might have some time to make some changes during the weekend. I´ll post what I come up with.
Not a problem. I hope your game goes well. ^-^