Lingering Wounds System - advice requested

[DigitalMage]

One thing I don't really like about D&D 4e is the fact that with an Extended Rest all PCs recover all their Hit Points and all their Healing Surges. In my Eberron campaign the PCs normally only faced a single combat per day (or couple of days) and so they always started fresh. There was no way I could grind them down over time so that they may enter the final confrontation wounded and needing to work smart to finish things quick. It also meant that if death was going to be a real threat from combat, that threat needed to be via a single encounter, which was quite a balancing act.

So, I am looking to either discover an optional rule (perhaps from a WotC book, or an Unearthed Arcana article I missed on DDI) or make one up myself.

The sort of thing I was looking for was if a PC takes an amount of damage in a single blow that equals or exceeds a threshold (Healing Surge Value, Fortitude Defense score etc) then the PC takes a Wound. The effects of that wound would be that they recover 1 (or maybe 2) less Healing Surges following an extended rest.

I am not sure whether it would also be interesting, or just too much hassle, to have each wound also apply a penalty, either an across the board -1 to attacks, defences, skill and ability checks, a -1 to d20 rolls (incuding Saves and Death Saving Throws), or perhaps a selective penalty to defenses (-1 to Reflex to describe a blow to an arm or leg, -1 to Will for a blow to the head etc).

I am not sure how Wounds would be recovered, perhaps 1 Wound per Extended Rest that you begin without suffering any HP damage? This way if you end a day with no surges, at least some HP damage and a Wound, you would not be recovering that would that night.

I did also consider whether an Extended Rest should not recover all HP, just Healing SUrges, so if you had HP damage and no surges before the Extended Rest you may need to spend some of the newly recovered surges immediately following an Extended Rest to recover your HP. This would mean you start the next day with less Surges, but if you go a day without injury you will be able to recover completely.

So pointers to existing rules? Any advice on what the Wound Threshold should be equal to? Should a Wound impose any penalties? Is this even a good idea?

BTW The above has been greatly influenced by Earthdawn for those familiar with that system.

NOTE: I have posted this over on RPG.net too so if you have already posted there you don't need to post here too.

[P.H. Dungeon]

DigitalMage wrote:

One thing I don't really like about D&D 4e is the fact that with an Extended Rest all PCs recover all their Hit Points and all their Healing Surges. In my Eberron campaign the PCs normally only faced a single combat per day (or couple of days) and so they always started fresh. There was no way I could grind them down over time so that they may enter the final confrontation wounded and needing to work smart to finish things quick. It also meant that if death was going to be a real threat from combat, that threat needed to be via a single encounter, which was quite a balancing act.

So, I am looking to either discover an optional rule (perhaps from a WotC book, or an Unearthed Arcana article I missed on DDI) or make one up myself.

The sort of thing I was looking for was if a PC takes an amount of damage in a single blow that equals or exceeds a threshold (Healing Surge Value, Fortitude Defense score etc) then the PC takes a Wound. The effects of that wound would be that they recover 1 (or maybe 2) less Healing Surges following an extended rest.

I am not sure whether it would also be interesting, or just too much hassle, to have each wound also apply a penalty, either an across the board -1 to attacks, defences, skill and ability checks, a -1 to d20 rolls (incuding Saves and Death Saving Throws), or perhaps a selective penalty to defenses (-1 to Reflex to describe a blow to an arm or leg, -1 to Will for a blow to the head etc).

I am not sure how Wounds would be recovered, perhaps 1 Wound per Extended Rest that you begin without suffering any HP damage? This way if you end a day with no surges, at least some HP damage and a Wound, you would not be recovering that would that night.

I did also consider whether an Extended Rest should not recover all HP, just Healing SUrges, so if you had HP damage and no surges before the Extended Rest you may need to spend some of the newly recovered surges immediately following an Extended Rest to recover your HP. This would mean you start the next day with less...

I run a Dragon Age campaign, and I implemented a similar type system. Here's the basics:

Characters all have Wound Points in addition to Health (Health is basically HP in Dragon AGE).

A PCs wounds points would basically be 10+Con bonus (for D&D)+level. If you are ever reduced to 0 wound points you are dead.

If a PC takes over x damage in a single hit he/she takes 1d3 wounds.

If you are ever reduced to 0 health/hp you take 1d6 wounds.

If I were doing it in D&D I'd say being bloodied results in 1d3 (or thereabouts) wounds.

A crit might add more wound damage

Certain creatures might always inflict a wound with their attacks.

In my game, each character has a Wound Threshold equal to half their Wound Points. If they ever go below it they roll a random attribute and that attribute takes a 1d2 penalty until they heal above their Wound Threshold. If I were using D&D I'd probably make it a 1d4 penalty.

To heal wounds a character makes recovery checks against a moderate DC (I'd probably use straight Con checks or Endurance checks for D&D). You can make a check after an extended rest, and if you make a check you can heal 1-3 wounds. Certain healing magic also allows you to make a recovery check, but does not normally guarantee that wounds will be healed.

In my experience thus far, we've found that having Wound Points makes the game more gritty (which we like). It makes the game slightly more complex, but it hasn't been difficult to track. PCs feel less like superheroes with mutant healing factors.

It's working for our game, but I'm not using D&D, so I don't know exactly how well it would translate. I think something like it would work though.

[DigitalMage]

Interesting, although I am likely to have wounds only be inflicted if a single blow exceeds some threshold, so wounds are not inevitable, and more likely to occur when hit by a crit.

One idea I like from someone on RPG.net is to use something FATE ish, where each Wound has no constantr penalty, but that each encounter the GM can "compel" a wound to provide a penalty of some sort (I am thinking grant Combat Advantage until end of next turn, be Slowed etc). This compel can be negated by spending an Action point.

If the player wants he can describe the nature of the wound (like a Consequence in FATE) and then the GM has to keep the compel in line with the nature of the wound.

I like this once per encounter penalty as it doesn't require a player to keep remembering to apply a -1 penalty to checks - it only becomes an issue every so often - which is in keeping with 4e's more narrative approach.

[Uchawi]

Implement a system for 4E where healing surges are gained back at a set rate, like 1 every 2 hours. Then you can add in other things like food and disease that may adjust the rate of recovery. Then remove the mechanic that all the healing surges are recovered at the end of an extended rest. You can add other things in like critical that cause additional effects, if that is not enough.

[Llacheu]

I'm interested in hearing more optional rules governing this. I currently have a Wounds/Injuries house rule in place for my players. They were very resistant at first but now, after 6 or 7 sessions, love it.

[Jerry Wright 307]

I don't use damage-multiple criticals in my game. If you score a critical, you have a chance (Fort save is involved) to cause a wound to your target. The types of wounds depend on where you hit them; you might slash someone across the face and all it does is make the target uglier. Or you might disembowel him and cause tons of Con loss, which could result in death. Hit location is randomly rolled; no called shots.

Regular damage is applied for the hit, and criticals ignore any DR a target might have, but dice are rolled for special damage, a number that modifies the target's Fortitude save. Special damage also represents a certain amount of healing required to take place before the effect wears off. A character could conceivably carry around a disabled limb or broken ribs until he heals up. Special damage is tracked seperately; you don't apply it to regular hit points.

Of course, the presence of magical healing changes everything, but I require special damage to be healed up in one shot; if your spell can't do it, you have to wait until normal healing reduces it until it can.

At first, there was considerable protest, but after a groin shot to a major demon that left it stunned long enough for the party to escape what might have been a TPK, they've warmed to the idea.

EDIT: One other thing; rogues in my game don't to damage multiples for sneak attack. Instead, they do an automatic critical hit. The random roll is directed; it isn't a called shot, but the general area of the body can be chosen (limbs, chest, abdomen, head, etc.). That way a rogue can try to disable the arm of a monster wielding a two-handed weapon, or go for a leg hit to reduce its movement, or a head shot to try to knock it out, etc..

[Fletch]

My current completely untried pet idea is to declare that HP are not recovered after an extended rest as healing surges are. The PCs are welcome to spend any surges they want to get back up to full, but that represents the exhausting impact of extended expeditions.

One idea I considered by rejected due to the added complexity was creating a special class of injury for critical injuries. Something like HP lost to critical hits could only be recovered through some special means like bed rest or a healing-based skill challenge or something. Normal HP loss I could attribute to bashing and bruising, but the critical hits represent deeper damage that can't just be slept off.

I'll also voice the opinion that suffering penalties for HP loss is a steep spiral. If PCs are having enough trouble in an encounter to lose a noticeable amount of HP, they're going to get progressively worse as the penalties start stacking up, causing them more HP loss and more penalties.