I'm not sure I could keep a strait face playing in an AP where the party patron is "Cobknobble Gobberwack, Retired Dwarven Goblin Slayer".
:D
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Heh. :)
Actually I too *used* to hate dwarves. Then after reading Dwarves of Golarion, the hairy little fellahs kinda won me over.
Now I would have no problem if an AP based on dwarf history/legends was announced.
And note that's a dwarf BASED AP. I can't support an AP were all the players are forced to be dwarves (nor do I think Paizo would ever do that.)
But rest assured that having listed dwarves as a pet peeve might not preclude JJ from further exploring dwarven history in Golarion. :)
Just my 2 cp.
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DWARVES RULE!!!!!!
I'm not sure I could keep a strait face playing in an AP where the party patron is "Cobknobble Gobberwack, Retired Dwarven Goblin Slayer".
:D
I believe that Cobknobble is a member of the famous New Hampshire Gobberwacks, known for their strained relationship with the Darkmagics.
The iconic dwarf is a ranger and no APs...rampant dwarfitism around here...
I really like dwarves - they are probably my favorite core race after human!
+1
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I'm not sure I could keep a strait face playing in an AP where the party patron is "Cobknobble Gobberwack, Retired Dwarven Goblin Slayer".
:D
That sounds more like a gnomish name.
Hruggi Axe-breaker of the Granguir clan, waging a war against the traitor Boldark Giant-talker (a dwarf talking to giants! that's heresy!) seems more plausible.
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Dwarves. Pathetic, pseudo-celtic-nordic alcoholics with arms so short that they even can't wipe themselves properly.
Wake me up when any company manages to make an interesting twist on that theme. Golarion dwarves are as boring as it gets (however, the slight mystic Hebrew twist is appreciated, that's a tangent rarely explored in RPGs)
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Dwarves. Pathetic, pseudo-celtic-nordic alcoholics with arms so short that they even can't wipe themselves properly.
Wake me up when any company manages to make an interesting twist on that theme. Golarion dwarves are as boring as it gets (however, the slight mystic Hebrew twist is appreciated, that's a tangent rarely explored in RPGs)
Wolsung: Technologically-focused Germans that always happened to be on vacation or reserve duty during The Great War.
Eberron: Dragon-marked bankers that hold half the Khovaire by their, uh, jewels.
Dark Sun: Hairless compulsive-obsessive types that became ghosts if died without fulfilling their obligations. Also dwarf on human sex.
Lord Of The Rings: Tolkien popularized concept of dwarf in fantasy but Professor's dwarves weren't ugly drunken brutes we have to deal currently.
A very small but lovable part: Cerilian Dwarves (from Birthright setting) were forbidden from eating pork. Why? Because their most hated enemies, the orogs (aka deep orcs) had porcine snouts and pork was considered unclean by that association.
The problem really is not with presentation of dwarves by companies, the problem lies with the obnoxious players that degenerate them into the same old warhammerish exiles mold.
10. Do our women have beards?
What do you mean, even the dwarves don't know that?!?
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The problem really is not with presentation of dwarves by companies, the problem lies with the obnoxious players that degenerate them into the same old warhammerish exiles mold.
I think this is probably a big part of the problem, actually.
I tend to see dwarves as a strong, proud and honor-driven race of warriors and craftsmen. They can be stoic and aloof but also very loyal to their friends. They are steeped in their traditions but still willing to change when necessary.
Careful with the wording in the thread title... I worry that we may see a "No-dwarf-themed AP"...
The (sadly-underappreciated) Warlords of the Accordlands d20 setting had a nice depiction of dwarves. Looong ago, they voluntarily went underground to keep the demons there in check. They were gone so long that the races on the surface forgot about this. Finally being overwhelmed, some came to the surface to seek help.
The surface races felt threatened by this 'new' race, didn't rememeber the old covenant and viewed them as a threat. It's a neat dynamic. Elves are also nontraditional and pretty nifty.
Golarion's Quest for the sky (which seems kinda similar) is also cool.
I agree with Drejk: thoughtful portrayals of dwarves by players seems pretty rare.
Dennis McKiernan has admirable, not goofy, dwarves in his Mithgar novels.
10. Do our women have beards?What do you mean, even the dwarves don't know that?!?
dwarven women in golarion don't have beards.
dwarven women in golarion don't have beards.10. Do our women have beards?What do you mean, even the dwarves don't know that?!?
Yes, but do the dwarves know that?
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James added a comment to the post at KQ:
HA! I did indeed list dwarves as a pet peeve! And I’ve put that in writing plenty of times before…
Doesn’t mean I won’t ignore dwarves in Golarion… but it does mean that I won’t be playing any dwarf characters anytime soon.
(bold emphasis mine). Look at the bold text. Using the old double negative, he sneakily is saying he likely will ignore dwarves.
J'accuse!!!!!
Lisa, save the dwarves!
Does anybody else just use dwarves like they do in Skyrim/Elder Scrolls?
Few people play them, but I love their fluff. They are always an excuse to have some ruins anywhere that expand into a massive dungeon complex.
That being said... I wouldn't mind if they had an AP that was kind of like World's Largest Dungeon that dealt with some kind of abandoned Sky Citadel.
Right now I'm using dwarven ruins in my Kingmaker game as resource bonuses.
Meh. It's always:
1. Get drunk
2. Live underground
3. Fight orcs
4. Drink more
5. HONOOOOOOOORRRR!
6. MORE ALCOHOL!
7. ORCS!
8. ELVES ARE WUSSIES! (granted, absent in Golarion)
9. BEEEEEEEEER *burp*
10. Do our women have beards?
I adressed this for my setting!
1. They are known for brewing and enjoying good alchohol, but aren't obsessed with it, and it isn't a main part of their culture.
2. Some do. Then again, they live anywhere that gives them engineering challenges. Cliffs, giant city ships, and tree cities are as common as underground cities.
3. Not particularly. Orcs would much rather fight fey than dwarves.
4. Not particularly.
5. To a degree, but not an extreme one.
6. Not particularly.
7. Not particularly.
8. The perception of elves is much more "Elves are imperialists!" than "Elves are wussies!", and even that has calmed down a great deal in recent times.
9. Not particularly.
10. The answer is no.
Most common classes among dwarves? Fighters, Alchemists, Wizards, and Druids. Fighters fit their highly professional style of warfare, Alchemists their constant scientific experimentation, Wizards their great love of scholarly arts, and Druids are useful for a race that tends to live in extreme environments.
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On to the subject of Golarion. I feel that a dwarf AP would be interesting. The problem is finding a large enough audience. Dwarves just aren't that popular.
DWARVES RULE!!!!. DON'T FORGET IT. THE AP WILL BE OURS!!!
(*grumbles thru beard* "stupid orcs bagging on dwarves)
The better question here is, when are we going to get Kender in Pathfinder?
I've said it before.
Dwarves should be portrayed as much more LN than LG.
And Dragon Age dwarven culture is a great "hard" LN dwarven model.
Another thing . . . why do we see dwarves getting drunk? If they drink all of the time and have high constitutions, shouldn't the joke be that someone drinking dwarven alcohol gets knocked on their backside, while it hardly affects the dwarf at all?
Getting drunk (not just drinking) seems to go against two other dwarven traits:
1. Greedy (i.e. cheap . . . enough drink to floor a dwarf would be expensive)
2. Dedicated to their work (i.e. if you addle your brains regularly, you can't plan for the next work day . . . )
I did like the romantic dwarven paladin in IDW's Dungeons and Dragons comic . . . the bit about his poetry being considered controversial was great.
-something awesome-
-something perhaps unfair to Kender-
Warforged too. *shudder*
I loved the idea of warforged in the context of a steampunky type setting but they were handled so poorly in 3.5 it wasn't even funny.
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-something awesome--something perhaps unfair to Kender-Warforged too. *shudder*I loved the idea of warforged in the context of a steampunky type setting but they were handled so poorly in 3.5 it wasn't even funny.
I also don't mind the construct race idea (actually I use a homebrewed ironborn race from The Book of Iron Might), but the warforged quasi-living thing... well, just no.
I had something in my old post-apocalyptic steampunk world that filled a similar theme. That whole living construct subtype crap was needlessly complicated. I'd like to see a similar theme appear in Pathfinder because I really like the idea, perhaps as a race native to the Mana Wastes.
Anyway, I and my groups love us some dwarves, we always have a dwarf or three in the group.
A whole dwarf AP might be overkill, but it'd be nice to have an adventure or two that passes through the Five Kings Mountains or a proper dwarven city.
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Story time: For an evil Greyhawk campaign, I once played a dwarf named Vulture. Vulture was so named because he had no beard and shaved his head. He'd been kicked out of his mountain home by the other dwarves, you see, on account of being a craven, greedy bastard. This left him with a relatively small, hideous head on a thin neck. So, being a proper dwarven rogue, he returned and stalked the whole bunch of them, building traps and snares and pitfalls all the way. After he'd scalped everyone he could, he helped himself to what cash and treasures he could carry and went right on shaving from that day forward.
Vulture was, in many ways, an answer to the bizarre monoculture of dwarven stereotypes that had come up. I used a filthy english accent, very cockney, just to contrast with the overused Scottish accent. And he refused to drink, since someone "might slit his throat when he weren't lookin'". He did, however, enjoy tobacco and whatever sort of stimulants he could get his hands on. The followers of Iuz let him engage in slaving and found drugs for him, so he was a loyal helper in their cause.
Fantasy gaming needs more dwarves like Vulture, I feel, to help players escape the stereotype-abyss. Dwarf fortress has, I feel, been an asset in this, since it's provided us with the 'dorf' stereotype of an insane miner capable of mad-engineering.
Next? I want Mesopotamian dwarves. Retains that lawful and severe edge but draws on a lot of 'new' material. Dwarves that build ring-holds and ziggurats. Dwarven sky-citadels that are ruled like absolute Stalinist dictatorships.
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Back on topic ... for a dwarf AP, I would want to see dwarves attempting to regain some amount of the power and dominance they held over the surface world in the Age of Darkness. Start with orc badguys, but then make the dwarves face Zon-Kuthonite villains or Old Ones. Something long thought buried and sealed away.
Thanks for the story, i got one too. i had a dwarf for forgotten realms, his name was jardak, he was a scion of tethyamar and was part of the most recent raid to reclaim however when thinks went badly, his regiment was separated and picked off one by one until he was only one left wandering the under dark alone for years until captured by drow slavers and brought to menzoberanzan and sold. and that was how i convinced the dm to let me play an evil dwarf in a dark elf campaign (he was the slave/servant of a drow pc). i would've liked a ranger but in 2nd edition rangers had to be good and not a dwarf so i went with multi-class fighter/rogue. all in all a fun time (he did not have accent). i currently have a dwarven witch i'm going to rock for skull and shackles. any race is awesome when the stereotypes are removed, or even with them.