How OP would it be to have a race with four arms? At first lvl the extra arms wouldn't do anything except give them a climb and grapple bonus and hold extra weapons. They couldn't use the extra arms to attack with weapons or hold a shield. I was also thinking of having a feat they could take so that they would be able to attack with those extra arms.
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This is probably one of the most painful common fantasy tropes to try and bring into the game and keep it properly balanced. Really hoping Advanced Race Guide tackles that issue from multiple directions.
What you're suggesting sounds reasonable at a glance though, and it's an approach I've been considering for my 4-armed homebrew race for a long time now, minus automatically scaling up with levels*.
*Which can still work I suppose. Some flying races have worked like that, starting with weak gliding before growing into full flight.
Comparing the functionality of the Vanara's prehensile tail might be a good point of reference to work with too.
Well, what if I made it that at some where around lvl 6 or so they could take the multiweapon weapon feat? I think that's what it is. Can't remember, I don't have my books with me at the moment.
Well, what if I made it that at some where around lvl 6 or so they could take the multiweapon weapon feat? I think that's what it is. Can't remember, I don't have my books with me at the moment.
In the strictest of technical senses, you would have to restrict them from being eligible for it until level 6 somehow. The listed requirements are Dex 13, 3 or more hands.
If you do some DPS calculations and compare them to a "normal" race doing roughly the same thing, that can act as pretty objective evidence that they aren't OP. My instinct is telling me they will come out ahead, though, since they can theoretically two-weapon fight by two-handing a pair of weapons (good for Power Attack), or they can multiweapon fight with four one-handed weapons, landing them the same number of attacks as someone all the way up the TWF tree with higher attack bonuses and fewer feats invested.
Using the one feat (multiweapon fighting), they are achieving slightly better results than Improved and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting can at 1/3 the cost and much earlier in their career. The only trade-off happens if Multi-Weapon Fighting doesn't count for the other Two-Weapon feats such as Double Slice or TW Defense- but not an enormous amount lost, since your attacks happen at a much higher attack bonus, and you get them right away. Side benefit: You only need Dex 13 to do it, instead of 19, meaning the point-buy for Dex can go a bit more into Strength than TWF usually allows.
Even if the multiple arms can't be used to attack with, spellcasters might find it handy to have them free for somatic gestures and material components while threatening an area with a weapon, holding a staff, or trying to pull off some weirdness by using their primary arms to hold up a shield, and using the secondary ones for somatic gestures and material component retreival. The logical argument of "everyone else only needs two arms for somatic gestures, so ASF should not apply when two arms are completely free" can be made. I'm pretty sure you don't mean for it to work that way, and the rules don't support it, but the argument is somewhat sensible- meaning it will probably be made.
That said, it's a good fantasy trope, and it would be great to see. I might suggest seeing if what Rite Publishing is doing with their racial paragon levels might be a good avenue to seal off power until later levels.
Hm....I'm going to have to think about this. I'm going to do a rough write up, and post it here. It will take me a little bit, since I'm at work right now. But, I'll post it soon. Thanks for the feed back, and if you have any more pointers or suggestions let me know.
I wonder what the level adjustment rules from 3.5 did wrong to get so much hate. Granted, I think the newer system of "add class levels to CR" as an "if you really HAVE to do it at all" clause is okay, but I'm curious.
People I play with hate starting at 1st level; generally we start around 3rd or 4th, but rarely as low as 2nd. I would be more than happy to give up a few class levels to play some sort of four-armed behemoth, or an ultra swift beastman of some sort, just to have something else to toy around with concept-wise.
I started looking for a cool four-armed race in the second campaign I ever played in, and have yet to find one decent enough that isn't going to start as an 8th level character or something stupid.
EDIT: I didn't really show how I leapt from reading this thread to making the comments I did, I just start rambling. I was considering making a monstrous humanoid with a few racial hit dice as I read the thread and my mind kind of derailed. My train of thought is riding some crooked tracks right now. Sorry.
I wonder what the level adjustment rules from 3.5 did wrong to get so much hate. Granted, I think the newer system of "add class levels to CR" as an "if you really HAVE to do it at all" clause is okay, but I'm curious.
People I play with hate starting at 1st level; generally we start around 3rd or 4th, but rarely as low as 2nd. I would be more than happy to give up a few class levels to play some sort of four-armed behemoth, or an ultra swift beastman of some sort, just to have something else to toy around with concept-wise.
I started looking for a cool four-armed race in the second campaign I ever played in, and have yet to find one decent enough that isn't going to start as an 8th level character or something stupid.
EDIT: I didn't really show how I leapt from reading this thread to making the comments I did, I just start rambling. I was considering making a monstrous humanoid with a few racial hit dice as I read the thread and my mind kind of derailed. My train of thought is riding some crooked tracks right now. Sorry.
It's pertinent in some ways. I could throw out a few things as to why people (including myself) aren't happy with level adjustment, but the applicable part is- as I pointed out above, adding arms onto a martial character gave them the attack benefits of essentially being two "ordinary" fighters beating on the same target. This would almost be easy to calculate, except that it isn't the same- they still share the AC, HP, and feats of a single character, and are affected by a single spell, unlike two fighters. This also isn't worth the same for all classes, either- casters, faces and infiltrators don't get nearly the same benefits. Level adjustments don't account for that, or play nicely with caster classes in any way. It was essentially a universal rule you couldn't use universally.