Goblin Squad Member
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What are your opinions on fast travel for PFO? Do you think it will be included, possibly to the 3 main NPC settlements? Why should/shouldn't it be included?
Personally, I'd like a "fast travel" system, though not like the standard MMO's. What I'm envisioning is caravans established which go from the NPC settlements to other settlements, though of course not to settlements at war with one another. If you want to travel from one settlement to another without having to run it yourself, you simply hop in the caravan. It'd be slower going than actually running it yourself, and much slower than one person on a mount (assuming there are mounts). However, it'll get you there whether you're logged in, logged out, or AFK.
I think this could also be linked with the economy to transport merchant's goods from one settlement to another. The caravan would need guards, to fend of random monsters or organized PvP attacks. However, I'd say any PC's in the caravan not acting as guards couldn't be killed or looted. After all, it would suck to log in dead, with all your stuff taken. Rather, I think a caravan raider could take merchant goods stored in the caravan (probably a small % for each raider, small enough so the merchant doesn't lose everything), as well as things from the guardsmen, and maybe some extra cash/loot which is the NPC merchant's goods (NPC merchants which are assumed to be present in every caravan).
The guardsmen could be NPC's and/or PC's. If they're NPC's, they'll be a certain minimum strength depending on where they're going, with the option for players to pay in order to bolster their caravan guard. If it's players, the merchant could simply set up an agreement for the person to follow with the caravan, negotiating their own payments.
This is my take on a "fast travel" system; feel free to comment or critique. Also, if you have another idea, post it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Here's how I see it.
NPC settlements will have fast travel that any non-criminal players can use to travel safely, probably with just a loading screen. I imagine it will take the form of a caravan, or maybe a teleportation service.
PC settlements can build the requisite structures and assets required for fast travel, and will be able to restrict who has access to it.
As far as caravans go, I imagine they will be almost entirely player run and controlled. Any player who wishes to work in Logistics can buy one or more carts, get drivers and cargo for them, and take to the roads wherever they may please. Caravans can be attacked by players as well as NPC enemies. I don't imagine players riding along would be immune to attack, if players can even do so.
NPC guards would be neat, but will probably be nowhere near as effective as other players. Actually, NPC guards runs the risk of discouraging people from working together, so I would tread carefully there.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Skwiziks, in your system would you have to be in a settlement to be able to fast travel? Or will you be able to fast travel to an NPC settlement from anywhere?
I like the idea of having to "unlock" fast travel to your own settlement via a building. I like even more being able to restrict who can fast travel to your community.
In your caravan system, I would agree that players shouldn't be immune to attacks. I was imagining the caravans to be a more automatic thing, though if that were the case my system would probably be more prone to easily coordinated raids which could kill a settlement's economy.
I don't think that NPC guards would discourage players from working together, if they're done properly. The system should be set up so that hiring player guards is always more cost effective, and almost always better protection. However, sometimes you simply can't get enough players together to help (due to any number of reasons), in which case the NPC's could act as a passable "Plan B", but not as a better alternative.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm not against NPC guards, I just think they would need to be implemented delicately, probably in the way you suggested.
Could you fast travel from the wilds to the city? I'm going to say no, not automatically. You would either have to have the spells to do so, or have access to a consumable, player-made item that gave you the ability to teleport. It would probably take the form of a 5th level scroll, or maybe a lower level spell that only took you to one location.
And the easily coordinated raids, as you say, are supposed to be there. Banditry should be a fully viable in-game career. Anything worth delivering should be worth raiding as well as guarding.
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Goblin Squad Member
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May I suggest travelling along a road grants a 25% speed bonus to whatever you are using, be it your own two feet, a Horse or other mount, or hitching a ride in a wagon or carriage?
Possibly Dirt Road grants 5%, with improving road conditions granting a further 5% till it caps out at whatever Goblinworks decides what is the 'penultimate' road.
Travelling cross-country is slower, but also has the benefits of random encounters, less chances to be Surprise-Round'ed by 'Ambush Predator' Player-Killers, the chance to find a random or rare resource node or, if you're like me, just to see what you can see.
That said, once you've found a location, so long as you've got your exploration kit (basic map, compass) you should be able to head in the direction (with little variation) of any specific location you have found.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree that it should be easy to mark any location on your map and have a compass point you to it...
I actually hope PFO makes a big deal of navigating in the wilderness, and gives us the opportunity to develop those Skills explicitly. I think it would be very good to require a skilled Ranger (or whatever) to lead you through the wilderness, rather than just clicking on your map and getting an arrow on your compass.
I would really like to see at a minimum a Cartography skill that not only allowed you to create in-game maps but also controlled how accurately you can position yourself on the map.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree that it should be easy to mark any location on your map and have a compass point you to it...I actually hope PFO makes a big deal of navigating in the wilderness, and gives us the opportunity to develop those Skills explicitly. I think it would be very good to require a skilled Ranger (or whatever) to lead you through the wilderness, rather than just clicking on your map and getting an arrow on your compass.
I would really like to see at a minimum a Cartography skill that not only allowed you to create in-game maps but also controlled how accurately you can position yourself on the map.
I would also like to see a large emphasis on navigation, but the ability to share coordinates/maps with other players will be very helpful. Someone who was skilled in Navigation and Cartography could explore an area, find a particular resource, then share the location with others, who will then be able to travel there via a compass/map system.
However, I don't players you share locations with will have the same map detail or ease of navigation that the person who found it would. Meaning groups traveling together with a navigator is still a good idea, just not a necessary one.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Skiwziks, I understand the desire, but I actually think it's a mistake to let every character run around as if they had an infallible GPS device with them. It's not going to really bug me if they give players exact coordinates at all times, but I think there's a real opportunity to push Wilderness skills and Navigation skills on characters who are going to be adventuring in the wild, and leaving room for the "always stays in the city" crafter to actually get lost if he goes off-road in the forest.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The ability to -share- coordinates is different from the ability to identify and navigate to them.
I also want the ability to get -bearings- to any visible landmark, the precision of those bearings depending on the quality of navigational equipment I have and am skilled in. It wouldn't bother me if the ability to get bearings was the only way to identify your current location (bearings to two visible landmarks is enough to uniquely identify any location).
EDIT: And fairly good topographical maps can be made using nothing except bearings and elevations (the angle between the horizon and the landmark). That means paper, ink, a sextant, a spirit level, and a directional compass represent all of the tools required to make an accurate map. The skills are nontrivial.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Skiwziks, I understand the desire, but I actually think it's a mistake to let every character run around as if they had an infallible GPS device with them. It's not going to really bug me if they give players exact coordinates at all times, but I think there's a real opportunity to push Wilderness skills and Navigation skills on characters who are going to be adventuring in the wild, and leaving room for the "always stays in the city" crafter to actually get lost if he goes off-road in the forest.
There should be some sort of "soul compass" that points to your soulbound location and everyone gets from the start, this way you don't get permanently lost, but if you have no wilderness skills it can be very difficult to find your way anywhere. This would of course not save you from taking an arcing path that circumvents a dragon lair(but you don't know that yet), then you try and take a straight path back to your soul binding point to find your self in the middle of a dragon lair. You have two choices 1) go die 2) read the next paragraph.
I would also like to see some sort of emergency beacon (a spell that can be cast or used to enchant an item that can be sold) that players can activate that sends their position to any ranger with high enough wilderness skills that has a 'receiver' for their call. or simply a /screamforhelp that creates a loud yell/scream at your location that people/monsters can zero in on.
I plan on main-ing a ranger/explorer/hunter/tour-guide so i'm all for anything that makes my life more fun and useful.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Shane, you might read this thread on Fast Travel too. Ryan was active in it for a while, and I kind of made an ass of myself near the end :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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That's one of the reasons I suggested that the Exploration Kit give you a mostly-accurate bead on where you want/need to go. A full Exploration Kit makes it fairly easy to get to where you want, with a minimum of staggering about going "WHERE IS IT?" a MAP alone might tell you where something is, but your chances of finding the exact location without a COMPASS is going to be considerably harder, likewise a COMPASS can only tell you which direction you are going in, as without a MAP you're just running blindly around in the forest.
Of course, terrain difficulties, Bandit Camps, wandering monsters and worse make going directly from A to B something you may want to avoid.
In regards to the Roads, to me that IS the Fast Travel system. An option for the player to toggle 'afk' while on the system would hopefully be added, so that the Player just trots along, regardless of their actual form of movement (Foot, mounted, carriage etc) leaving the player free to do other things on their end while still in the game, be it talking over a private channel, organizing their packs or trying to work out the right combination of ingredients to get the most out of a potion or enchanting recipe.
Fast travel (or teleporting, gating, whatever) precludes the option of random encounters.
While I agree that the option should exist, it should be something only higher powered players should have available, simply so they avoid being nitted to death by pointless speed-bump encounters while traveling. I don't think I want low level players avoiding the game when traveling unless they pay through the nose for it. If an NPC opens up a travel service, be it horse and carriage, or more spectacular means (griffon, gate, teleport spell, planar travel) then it should be costly due to the means of the transport, making anything beyond horse and carriage something only people who can usually already augment their own travel themselves might take part in, to conserve their abilities and spend gold.
And of course, horse and carriage can still be interrupted.
I don't agree that players should be allow to afk without being punted if afk too long, and I certainly would not want problem free travel on roads. Even once the land has been pacified of monsters, there still remains one of the most intelligent and dangerous creatures in the area: MAN.