Thomas LeBlanc
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I am adding a quickfire crossbow (Chinese repeating crossbow) to my campaign. Just wondering, is it balanced?
Basically the quickfire crossbow has lower range and damage in exchange for the chance to fire multiple shots per attack. Not sure about the three shots per attack.
Feedback would be appreciated.
| cnetarian |
Certainly not overpowered at 3 x bolts/attack as it comes from the shop. Instead of using it straight from the shop a crossbowman could rub some poison onto the bolts first and being hit with 3 bolts would really pack a wallop. Likewise if the quickfire crossbow were enchanted with Frost and +5 , 3 bolts would do considerably more damage than a single bolt from a Frost +5 repeating crossbow. Factored against the multiple enchant/poison effect is the close range and decreased accuracy from firing multiple shots and the relatively high cash price of using poison ammo.
Advice
1) make a note that the multiple shots have the same target. increase the price to 400G because this does have to potential to be a powerful weapon if used right. make a ruling about how to apply effects (*cough** sneak attack), only to the first bolt or the first bolt which hits or spread among the bolts or whatever. make it an exotic instead of a martial weapon.
2) 3 bolt/attack if the campaign is unlikely to get above level 10 as the multiple poisoning/enchant effect should be manageable below that. If the campaign is likely going to go above level 15 only allow double shots.
3) convert it to more expensive quickfire bolts which are not interchangeable with normal crossbow bolts.
4) the big thing to watch is (in case you missed it) the multiple poison/enchant bonuses in a single attack. In the hands of a rules lawyer despite the low damage before poison&enchants, this could be made too powerful. The drawbacks (crossbow as no str- bonus, low range) should be enough to keep it from being a game-breaker but watch for attempts to rules lawyer it into a god-slayer weapon.
alternative advice I just thought of:
model firing on the gunslinger dead-shot deed and apply the effects of enchants to the total combined attack and rule that poison can only be applied once/attack no matter how many poison bolts hit.
Thomas LeBlanc
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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| Kaisoku |
Hmm.
The link you provided was for a repeating crossbow. The game has that already (actually, since 3.X). It's the same stats as a normal crossbow, only exotic and more expensive.
The only reference in the video regarding multiple shots at once was in reference to how some were made that way (ie a different weapon). The Advanced Player Guide has the double crossbow as well.
I guess if you want your double repeating crossbow, having it at 1d2 damage offsets the benefits. I mean, that's less than the hand crossbow.
Thomas LeBlanc
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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While not specifically called out, I always figured the lever on the repeating crossbow cocked like the light crossbow. Using a light crossbow requires drawing and placing bolt for a move action reload. But on the repeating crossbow, the case was mounted below and used tension to push bolts in place.
Updated to make case part of quickfire crossbow, reloading, and added gravity feed.
| cnetarian |
Doesn't seem to be out of balance in this form.
I had this image of a 5th level rogue doing 3 x ( 1d3 base damage + 2d12 sassone leaf residue poison damage + 3d6 sneak damage) for 76.5 avg damage to one-shot a CR 7 young black dragon with avg HPs 76, and that's with a non-magic weapon.
2 shots w/o sneak or precision bonuses answers my ideas of how to twist this into an uber-weapon (I am sure some sneaky player can find a way to do so, but rules lawyers can do that with any weapon which isn't a sword).
| Dabbler |
The repeating crossbow already in the game does not operate even remotely the same. I saw the Chinese version at a SCA meet and nowhere close to the power and range of even a hand crossbow. I wanted to create a version that was simple to use and could easily be created by peasants.
You are absolutely right in that respect, but the original Chinese weapon, while faster firing and simple to use, would only dish a miniscule amount of damage (as represented here by 1d2 damage). Also the accuracy left a lot to be desired, as you effectively had to shoot from the hip.
I don't think it would be able to shoot three times per attack, though. Instead I would treat it like Rapid Shot and Many Shot: you get the three shots for a standard action attack (maybe an extra shot again with a feat?), or on your first attack of a full attack action. Your average fighter at high level is going to get six shots off in a full attack action, then three as a standard action the following round, then spends a move action reloading.
doc the grey
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1.) Reload time: you may want to fuddle with your reload time with the weapon since, as written you have it taking a minute which means that that rogue mentioned earlier will be spending 10 rounds reloading for every 2 rounds full on firing if he is not reloading after every part.
2.)You want to reword your Rapid Reload actions, an immediate action seems a little too much for the feat and bring it back down to a free action.
3.) This last one irks the writer/editor in me. In your construction area you have the thing listed as costing double due to "its simple design". That wording seems misleading to me when I look at it as a player since masterwork quality usually means it requires more skill to craft and is probably more complex then your average version of the same item. May want to change the wording to something like "due to it's complex design" or "due to it's odd parts and integrated clip, this crossbow masterwork components cost double". Or if you were meaning for it to be simpler and easier to make check your price.
Hope those help man.
Thomas LeBlanc
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I don't think it would be able to shoot three times per attack, though.
1.) Reload time:
2.)You want to reword your Rapid Reload actions,
3.) This last one irks the writer/editor in me.
Hope those help man.
Thanks everyone!
I ran some numbers and now going with a standard action to fire multiple shots, reworked reloads, and dropped added cost to masterwork.
Thomas LeBlanc
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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No problem man happy I could help. Now are you saying that it can fire multiple shots as a standard action and does that stack in a full attack (i.e. I would get an extra shot on a full attack?)?
Yes, if you have Rapid Shot.
At low levels the masterwork quickfire crossbow, Point Blank Shot, and Rapid Shot will deal 2-3 damage per successful attack as a full-round action; 3 shots at -2 to hit (6-9 max damage) or 4 shots at -5 to hit (8-12 max damage). Hope you kill them, cause you will draw a large target on yourself. Outside of 20 feet you start having range penalties and outside of 30 feet Point Blank Shot no longer helps.
Compared to a masterwork light crossbow and Point Blank Shot that gives you +2 to hit (2-9 damage), 19-20 critical range, uses one less feat, leaves a move action available, and can apply precision/sneak damage. Then you could take Weapon Focus to increase hit chance, Far Shot for more reliable hits at further range increments, Precise Shot to not hit your teammates, or etc.