Spells take a full action instead of standard

[joela]

I know it's been asked before, but what's the impact to the game if spells that normally take a standard action to cast now take a full turn. Thanks!

[spalding]

About the same as if the standard attack took a full round action instead of a standard.

[TOZ]

Kirth should be along soon to report his playtest findings. :)

[joela]

TOZ wrote:

Kirth should be along soon to report his playtest findings. :)

What summoning level is that? ^_^

[TOZ]

1st, but the arrival is random.

[Pryllin]

Firstly, the caster essentially misses the first round of combat because his spell doesn't go off until just before his next action. An entire round almost passing before the spell happens would diminish reactive spells, and could easily be the difference between life and death with healing spells.
Secondly, any movement beyond a 5' step stops the caster from being able to cast.
Thirdly, all damage inflicted will result in the caster having to make a concentration check DC 15 + the damage dealt. I think they may have to do that every time they get hit too.

Obviously, this will impact the strategies used against casters- no longer do you have to kill them, you just need to damage them each turn.
When you get beside them, they can't even retreat and cast taking an AoO. Stick them on difficult terrain and they can't even 5' step any more.

I think casters would become a lot less fun to play, IMHO.

$0.02

:-D

[Tim4488]

Well, there's a difference between a casting time of 1 Round and a Full-Round Action. The latter goes off during your initiative count, the former takes until just before your next turn, IIRC. I think the former would be far too brutal, but the latter might work.

[spalding]

Well it's important to distinguish between a 1 round casting spell and casting as a full round action. Some spells are full round actions and their effects still go off on the round they are cast (like when a spontaneous caster uses metamagic) -- other spells like summon monster which are 1 round casting times have to wait until right before the beginning of your next turn.

Ninja'ed by Tim4488

[Remco Sommeling]

I think spells like lightning bolt and ray spells become less useful since you can not move into an optimal position before casting, it will end up making (mainly) blasting options a bit worse.

No casting in the surprise round.

Spells like silence and the like become a bigger obstacle.

[erik542]

Remco Sommeling wrote:

I think spells like lightning bolt and ray spells become less useful since you can not move into an optimal position before casting, it will end up making (mainly) blasting options a bit worse.

No casting in the surprise round.

Spells like silence and the like become a bigger obstacle.

Or you could just move most up to full round actions and leave the ones that kind need the movement to be effective as they are.

Even with the time adjustment, this really only affects what casters do in combat. The truly powerful spells don't care.

[Tim4488]

Been reading a lot of Harry Dresden lately, and actually, the idea of Evocation going off quickly fits nicely. Any Evocation spell that is currently a Standard Action remains so, because it's the school of just forcing energy around, usually with the least shaping involved. You have to call up a lot of power for a fireball, but you don't do as many complex things with it as you do with a charm person or a detect good. Yeah, there are some more complex Evocation spells, but we can just make this a blanket rule for simplicity. All other schools get upgraded to a minimum of a Full-Round Action (NOT a 1 Round Casting Time). This actually has the advantage of making blasting MORE interesting, in a way, because the evoker has the opportunity to be mobile on the battlefield, while a dedicated transmuter or enchanter has to find a good position and then sit still for a while... which, actually, fits quite neatly with some iconic images of fantasy. There are the occasional blasting spells from other schools, but they're not really the primary focus of those schools, so the energy has to be shaped in more complicated ways than the raw power of evocation.

[Pryllin]

Tim4488 wrote:

Well, there's a difference between a casting time of 1 Round and a Full-Round Action. The latter goes off during your initiative count, the former takes until just before your next turn, IIRC. I think the former would be far too brutal, but the latter might work.

"A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action." Core Rulebook, p213.

I agree that creating an intermediate casting time would do some interesting things, while not nerfing the wizard totally but I'm very much of the idea that, "if it's not broke, don't fix it". For standard gaming I think magic works just fine.
However, you play a wizard in a low magic to no magic world and they become very powerful. That's where I can see such extra rules being useful to balance things. And of course, there's always the 'feel' of magic. Long rituals and such are standard tropes of fantasy that get little look in for this magic system, but ultimately the rules have to balance the game over supporting the tropes. Always fun first. :-D

[Remco Sommeling]

Pryllin wrote:

Tim4488 wrote:

Well, there's a difference between a casting time of 1 Round and a Full-Round Action. The latter goes off during your initiative count, the former takes until just before your next turn, IIRC. I think the former would be far too brutal, but the latter might work.

"A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action." Core Rulebook, p213.

I agree that creating an intermediate casting time would do some interesting things, while not nerfing the wizard totally but I'm very much of the idea that, "if it's not broke, don't fix it". For standard gaming I think magic works just fine.
However, you play a wizard in a low magic to no magic world and they become very powerful. That's where I can see such extra rules being useful to balance things. And of course, there's always the 'feel' of magic. Long rituals and such are standard tropes of fantasy that get little look in for this magic system, but ultimately the rules have to balance the game over supporting the tropes. Always fun first. :-D

A spell that takes a full round to cast is a full round action but will not be completed till the beginning of your next turn, BUT a spell that requires a full round action to be cast is not necesarily 1 round casting time, as with spontaneous metamagic it still takes effect in the same turn you start your casting.

[Pryllin]

Remco Sommeling wrote:

A spell that takes a full round to cast is a full round action but will not be completed till the beginning of your next turn, BUT a spell that requires a full round action to be cast is not necesarily 1 round casting time, as with spontaneous metamagic it still takes effect in the same turn you start your casting.

Thanks. That'll make my Sorcerers a bit more likely to use Metamagic Feats in future. :-)