I am looking into trying a new game and these three are on list. I have heard a lot of great things about Mouse Guard(I know that it is not like the others mentioned and that is part of the appeal), I love the Warhammer world and art, and then there is the familiar feeling of home that is DnD. Looking for some honest opinions from some folks who may have actually played these systems.
If your willing to shell out some serious money, WFRP 3e is a very interesting and different game.
Unlike most games, dice rolls can actually tell you about not only the outcome of an attack or challange, but the story of the attack or challange
It is possible to roll the dice on an attack and find that
1. you charge forwards and strike a light blow injuring the goblin.
2. you charge forwards and drive your sword into the goblin, slaying it instantly, only to find your sword is lodged in the monster. You wrestle to free your blade as its companions attack.
3. as you charge you slip in the mud, falling prone, screaming in panic you scrabble back away from chittering goblin. It ponces, a rusty dagger in hand, and you raise your blade to defend yourself. In a momment of mad luck, the goblin throws itself onto the blade, killing itself.
Because you use a dice pool, with numerous types of dice, and the results of the dice are not numbers, but effects, a roll of a dice pool can result in many different outcomes, from having your next action slowed, to being injured or tired in your attemp, to scoring critical hits, or gaining additional effects on your attack, and you can achieve several different effect at the same time. Say scoring a critical hit, and pulling a muscle at the same time.
And all of this information is conveyed very quickly by the dice, because rather than numbers, they use images, which tell you at a glance what happened. It takes a bit of time to begin with, but once you have practice, the system can be very quick, and interesting.
That said, there are some elements of it I really dislike as well. The falling damage rules make little to no sense for instance, and the rule book is terrible organised and not very well written, even if the system does have huge potential.
I am a big fan of WFRP 3rd Edition, but as Zombieneighbors mentioned it does have some considerable financial input if you are looking to own the "full system" as a 2nd edition player would recognize it (all the chaos gods, winds of magic, religious cults, etc). The game is totally playable with the Core Set alone....but the supplements are really fulfilling and expensive :-). I would also concur that the rules really are confusingly written with no real sense of organization or flow. Luckily the small but vicious community is always willing to help out over at the Fantasy Flight forums (I'm Callidon over there). The Warhammer setting is the real star of the show in my opinion. ANd 3rd edition does a great job of bringing that world to life. Also fan-created content for Warhammer has always been first rate, and 3rd edition is starting to get some heat behind it as more people join in. It's a great narative stystem that offers a unique and fun play experience for those willing to jump in head first.
The D&D Essentials box is an okay entry point into 4th edition but it is really best supported by some of the other books printed for the main 4th edition line. It's not a bad choice by any means. I just find that 4th edition gets tedious quicker than the other two games you've mentioned. But that is merely opinion, and I'm sure others would agree/disagree and also find WFRP 3rd edition tedious with all the bits n parts.
Mouseguard and Burning Wheel in general is a really fun, light hearted system. The focus is almost entirely on story and very sparsely on game mechanics. I'm not entirely sure the box set is any better than simply owning the core book (I haven't gotten my mits on the Mouseguard box), but in the growing world of box sets...the maps and other bits are likely well done.
So my recommendations:
Of the three I'd say WFRP 3rd edition has the greatest potential to drain your bank account. But you may truly fall in love with the quirky game system FFG has put together (and it all ebay's pretty well if you find you hate it :-).
4th Edition's Essentials box is going to be price-point friendly but it is set up to get you to buy the other 4th edition products if you want to use it long-term and apply it to other settings, etc.
Mouseguard is fun (especially if you have a young child to play with), and I think everyone should just write Luke Crane and his crew big fat checks to keep them going...but you could probably just get away with the main rulebook unless you really want a map of the territories and the minis.
Herbo and Zombieneighbors, Thanks for the input. I agree with the fact that Warhammer is a rather money intensive affair, but I suppose no more so than having a video game habit. I went to the on base book store the other day and flipped through the 4th ed. PHB. It just doesn't seem to feel like DnD anymore. I was especially displeased with the Forgotten Realms campaign setting. I was expecting a source book and it was more of an AP. Nothing like the Inner Sea Guide.
I will likely pick up the Mouse Guard book. I have a children and nieces and nephews that may enjoy playing it. But, I think the Core Set WFRP is on my short list. I like the lethality that you decribed. An intergrated Crit/Fumble aspect really makes for a more intense and realistic battle. Thanks again for the assistance. I'm going to go check the Warhammer forums and read up on what needs to be corrected and to get a feel for the system.
Go with Mouse Guard, it is hundreds of time simpler than Warhammer or 4e. Mouse Guard may seem silly upfront but invokes a richer storytelling and role-playing experience than the others,IMO.
Warhammer is an amazing setting. I think that it has the best dwarves of any fantasy setting. Period. But, it does look a little time and money intenive. I am intrigued by the new system of dice and cards to speed play and increase narrative nature of checks, though. Mouse Guard looks pretty decent for the cash, too. $23.00 bucks for the hardcover book is hard to turn down.
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I would, if I was wanting to save a bit of cash, buy 2e Warhammer, the core rulebook and the bestiary (stop buying right there). Then I would play. 2 books, complete system! If you want background material then pick up some of the 4th --> 6th edition Warhammmer Fantasy Battle (the miniatures game) army books. Should be able to fine them for a few dollars each.
I would, if I was wanting to save a bit of cash, buy 2e Warhammer, the core rulebook and the bestiary (stop buying right there). Then I would play. 2 books, complete system! If you want background material then pick up some of the 4th --> 6th edition Warhammmer Fantasy Battle (the miniatures game) army books. Should be able to fine them for a few dollars each.
Solid advice right there. The 2nd edition's Old World Bestiary is rocket-sauce. On the few dollars each angle...they shouldn't cost an arm and a leg but you might run up against some jerks looking to make money on "out of print" books.
True. It seems some people want to retire off of things that are not really worth that much to most of us. While I love these games, they are just that and there is no way I would pay the price some folks want for a couple of those source books. I will look into the 2nd ed deeper then.
Just picked up the 2nd ed rule set yesterday and will be getting the Beast book soon. Looks pretty good so far.
Bilbo as you get in further to the 2nd edition groove here are some websites to check out. They are full of awesome fan content, free play aids, house rule discussions, etc.
Strike to Stun - lots of old guard grognard players that are both exceedingly grumpy and very helpful.
Winds of Chaos - random bits and pieces (inlcuding v2 stats for the v1 Enemy Within Campaign)
Liber Fanatica - rock solid fan content for v2 and v3. In addition to the fan mags check out the Hidden Addenda and Apocrypha links on that page for stuff like "cant of the empire" featuring a glorious list of slang terms, etc.
Dave Grafam's Random Item Generator - Dave is amazing and this generator he made is 110% fantastic (for any fantasy game really). It definitely helps when trying to "warhammerize" stuff the players may find in crates, pockets, body cavities, etc. If you can find Dave's "Expanded Character Module" online you should get that. It has a lot of extra tidbits for generating characters (the random trappings are awesome there too).
Since I have been getting more and more into 3rd edition these days and own just about all the 2nd edition books feel free to PM me if you think of a book you want and I will check to see if I have it. If so, I'd be willing to do a long term loan for free (as long as they head back my way before they'd get sold off or something). No sense having good books for good games going to rot and ruin on my shelves eh?
Herbo, that is amazingly generous of you to offer. I think that I am going to take the advice of both you and Hill by getting the Beast book and calling it a day. I picked the core book and realms of sorcery for a good price. I am intrigued by 3rd ed. How do you like it overall?
Does strike to stun still have a massive hate-on for 3e?