I was resently looking at the Lamia Matriarch in the bsty 2 and noticed an ability--undersized weapons. After seeing what that entailed--what I expected it was--I started thinking 'why shouldnt PCs have access to similar capabilities. As such I'm suggesting the following 4 feats be added to the Pathfinder RPG feat list.
OVERSIZED WEAPON (COMBAT)
You can wield a weapon larger than your size with reduced penalties.
Prerequisites: Str 13, BAB +3.
Benefit: You reduce the attack penalty for larger sized weapons by one per step of difference in your size and the weapon's. For example, a medium sized creature could wield a large sized dagger with only a -1 penalty or a huge sized dagger with only a -2 penalty.
Normal: You receive a -2 penalty for each size category of difference of between the size of its intended wielder and its actual wielder.
Special: This feat may be taken twice, reducing the weapon size penalty by two steps maximum.
UNDERSIZED WEAPON (COMBAT)
You can wield a weapon smaller than your size with reduced penalties.
Prerequisites: Str 13, BAB +3.
Benefit: You reduce the attack penalty for smaller sized weapons by one per step of difference in your size and the weapon's. For example, a medium creature could wield a small sized dagger with only a -1 penalty or a tiny sized dagger with only a -2 penalty.
Normal: You receive a -2 penalty for each size category of difference of between the size of its intended wielder and its actual wielder.
Special: This feat may be taken twice, reducing the weapon size penalty by two steps maximum.
GIANT GRASP (COMBAT)
You can wield a weapon larger than your size using the same amount of effort.
Prerequisites: Oversized weapon, Str 15, BAB +5.
Benefit: You reduce the amount of effort required to use a weapon sized one category larger than yourself. For example: a medium sized creature with this feat could use a large sized great sword as a two-handed weapon.
Normal: The measure of effort required to use a weapon (light, one-handed, two-handed) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed (PFCRB pg 144). In this example a medium sized creature could not normally wield a large sized two-handed weapon since its measure of effort would go beyond the 'two-handed' category.
PIXIE PALM (COMBAT)
You can wield a weapon smaller than your size using the same amount of effort.
Prerequisites: Undersized weapon, Dex 13, BAB +5.
Benefit: You increase the amount of effort required to use a weapon sized one category smaller than yourself. Example: a medium sized creature with this feat could use a small sized dagger as a light weapon.
Normal: The measure of effort required to use a weapon (light, one-handed, two-handed) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed (PFCRB pg 144). In this example, a medium sized creature could not normally wield a small sized light weapon since its measure of effort would go lower than the 'light' category.
i added the Dex requirement since I think that while holding a smaller weapon also requires good Str, using it effectivly requires sufficent coordination too.
The over sized weapon feats already exist, it is called Monkey Grip. It is also one of the most controversial feats on this board. People get into some long threads about it. The undersized weapons aren't a bad idea though.
monkey grip is a 3.0/3.5 feat that is already incorporated into the PFCRB, pg 144. anyone can use a larger/smaller weapon with minuses. What I'm suggesting with these feats is reducing the size penalty and the 'effort' restriction.
So, as a Ranger with Oversized Weapon and Giant Grasp, I could use a Large Greatsword, have Enlarge Person cast on me, then use Lead Blades to attack with the damage of a Gargantuan Greatsword at -1 to hit with only one round of prep needed? If the GM loses his marbles and lets me play a Large race somehow, I could get it to Colossal damage.
Yes, this is situational, and a lot harsher than I want to come off, but it really shouldn't be possible at all. Multiple effects that increase size category don't stack, but Lead Blades simply increases the damage to that of something one size larger, it doesn't actually increase the size itself. So, in effect, you get melee weapons that can be three sizes larger than they are intended to be for the character, dealing much more base weapon damage (that multiplies on a critical hit, unlike a lot of add-on damage).
Now, one or two size increases usually isn't enough extra damage to justify the resources (spell slots, actions) it takes to do this every fight, but three increases on a two-handed weapon may take this into "worthwhile" territory, especially if you have plenty of attacks quickly (such as Boots of Speed).
Now, the usual refutation to this is that the extra damage is inferior to just taking Power Attack with the consummate penalties. Power Attack is not mutually exclusive with this, though. The prerequisites for these feats ensure that you qualify for Power Attack by definition- the only thing really stopping you is the number of feats you have at any one moment.
(I actually backed myself into a corner assuring a player that their ranger could get Strongarm bracers during a game, expecting that it and Enlarge Person would be the only size increase they would get access to. Then the APG came out.)
I did think about how this could be a problem using enlarge person, but wasnt familar with the other spell, lead blades--wow, that could definatetly get ugly with throwing damage around.
an alternative to using these with multiple attacks from high levels or magic items, you could reduce the amount of attacks by 1 (or 1 per size step) for large or larger weapons--compared to your normal/current size, with a minimum of 1 attack per round
the gm could also rule that size increases from spells/magic items overrule these feats if it seems too unfair.
generally i dont think many PCs will take the undersized weapons/pixie palm feats unless the GM is allowing large creatures as pcs--ogres, trolls, half-giants, etc., which is really what I geared them for anyway, that and large NPCs.
So, as a Ranger with Oversized Weapon and Giant Grasp, I could use a Large Greatsword, have Enlarge Person cast on me, then use Lead Blades to attack with the damage of a Gargantuan Greatsword at -1 to hit with only one round of prep needed?
I want to point out here that you're only going from 2d6 to 6d6 damage. That only adds 14 damage average.
I know that's a good amount of damage, but it's hardly earth-shattering for two feats and two spells.
I want to point out here that you're only going from 2d6 to 6d6 damage. That only adds 14 damage average.
I know that's a good amount of damage, but it's hardly earth-shattering for two feats and two spells.
Somewhat. But it also stacks with any other damage-adds (like power attack), multiplies on a critical, doesn't inflict any penalties other than opportunity cost, and Enlarge Person comes with other benefits on top of this (+2 to Strength for another net +1 damage, and increased reach to get more milage out of your attacks). It also gets worse the more attacks you have by any means, such as Haste (that can be had as a free action via Boots of Speed, to prevent action economy loss). As a ranger, Instant Enemy is also a Swift Action spell of a different spell level, so even when you feel like using that to-hit and damage bonus, your action and resource economy isn't adversely affected.
The longer the fight goes on, the better it becomes, since pretty much all the key spells involved last 1 minute per level and thus aren't in realistic danger of running out.
It's less beneficial for other classes without Lead Blades, and may be underpowered for them at the cost of two feats. But being underpowered for most and overpowered or okay for one doesn't really "average out."
To the OP:
It sounds like your design goal was to negate the penalties of larger creatures using smaller weapons. I'd recommend focusing on that. Your other idea to limit the net effects of size increases might also be a good idea. Something like a universal rule that a weapon's net damage through size/weight/mass/etc. can only be one size larger than yourself sounds like a good limiter (for a lot of situations, really).
I run several 'undersized weapon' races, most notably centaur-like ones.
Undersized weapon could be a trait that simply removed the penalty all together. There's not much benefit to using unusually small weapons, so it's basically a trait for increased versatility the few times you are without access to a medium-sized weapon but DO have access to a small-sized one.