I love the great game dragons from 3.5 monster manual V and am looking to convert them to pathfinder.
I was just wondering if any one has already done this and if no any suggestions?
I love the great game dragons from 3.5 monster manual V and am looking to convert them to pathfinder.
I was just wondering if any one has already done this and if no any suggestions?
I ported it directly to my game world, but since I hate the "great game" and love the idea of dragons without spellcasting (with the exception of their normal spell-like abilities), I just removed all the references to Exarchs & the game and used it as a curse laid down on dragonkind for an offense they committed against the gods in days long past. Additionally, I removed the color coding for your convenience with regard to alignment (but not environment), removed all dragons save chromatic, and added in the AD&D yellow dragon (for deserts while moving the blue dragon to acquatic). However, my fluff has nothing to do with your question, so...
There is VERY little you need to do to port it over. Works exceptionally well with my game world.
I noticed you've made posts regarding this several times. What precisely is giving you difficulty in conversion?
I love the great game dragons from 3.5 monster manual V and am looking to convert them to pathfinder.
I was just wondering if any one has already done this and if no any suggestions?
I ported it directly to my game world, but since I hate the "great game" and love the idea of dragons without spellcasting (with the exception of their normal spell-like abilities), I just removed all the references to Exarchs & the game and used it as a curse laid down on dragonkind for an offense they committed against the gods in days long past. Additionally, I removed the color coding for your convenience with regard to alignment (but not environment), removed all dragons save chromatic, and added in the AD&D yellow dragon (for deserts while moving the blue dragon to acquatic). However, my fluff has nothing to do with your question, so...
There is VERY little you need to do to port it over. Works exceptionally well with my game world.
I noticed you've made posts regarding this several times. What precisely is giving you difficulty in conversion?
Like you my game world is different the whole chromatic/metalic alignment thing is gone and the template is universal... there are no standard dragons (though wyrms and such exist) in my world dragons never had a great deal of magic but magic was first gifted or invented for humanoids to emulate or defend from dragons.
anyway the two things that are bothering me about conversion are spell resists and young dragons.
I am using these dragons in an E6 campeign so the dragons that players may encounter will likley never exceed CR10. but the great game dragons seem to all be of high CR adult or higher.
my questions have to do with Exarcs (which I intend to keep) any suggestions on levels, abilities and CRs (such as when an exarc is summoned. Spell resists which I am not sure why the original template removes spell resists. and general balance of abilities placed on lower level dragons.
anyway the two things that are bothering me about conversion are spell resists and young dragons.
I am using these dragons in an E6 campaign so the dragons that players may encounter will likley never exceed CR10. but the great game dragons seem to all be of high CR adult or higher.
my questions have to do with Exarcs (which I intend to keep) any suggestions on levels, abilities and CRs (such as when an exarc is summoned. Spell resists which I am not sure why the original template removes spell resists. and general balance of abilities placed on lower level dragons.
I must admit, I'm not overly familiar with the e6 campaigns. I am assuming it in some way limits the character level and thus gear and so on.
Since your question is regarding using lower age dragons with these abilities, here goes. I can't speak for all of the abilities, as I've removed several from use due to flavor or what have you. My opinions on the following, with regard to younger dragons (who normally do not qualify for them) and their usefulness are as follows:
Safe to Use: Alternate Form, Berserker Power, Draconic Roar, Dragon Eyes, Energy Aura, Intimidating Presence, Rejuvenation, and Twist of Fate.
Questionable: Deep Breath
Dangerous (not recommended): Dragon Toxin.
I'd add +1 CR per ability granted to the dragon.
As for exarchs, pg 45 MM V has instructions for their use in an encounter, though I'd have them either as guys who soften up the party from the start or who hassle them throughout the adventure. I don't think I'd have the exarchs and the dragon on the party at the same time, if this e6 works like I think it does.
Hope this helps.
E6 is basic pathfinder (or D&D) till 6th level then you stop leveling and give feats every so much XP. there are a few mods to feat availability and such at the GMs discretion but its a very simple change to the game
however due to the nature of E6 your campaign advancement has to level off a bit after CR 8 or so (depending no group and other dynamics) as such I plan to have 1 or 2 dragons in the campaign which are CR 7 to 10 depending on curtain factors.
believe it or not I like the deep breath ability (though not at +4 dice and +4 on the save. maybe 2 and 2. I like it because it adds tactical dynamics to the battle. the first time the party eats a powered up breath weapon they better recognize what a deep breath means ^_^
what about Spell Resist? why does the template remove spell resist? It seems like keeping standard dragon spell resist is fair is there a dynamic I am missing?
E6 is basic pathfinder (or D&D) till 6th level then you stop leveling and give feats every so much XP. there are a few mods to feat availability and such at the GMs discretion but its a very simple change to the game
however due to the nature of E6 your campaign advancement has to level off a bit after CR 8 or so (depending no group and other dynamics) as such I plan to have 1 or 2 dragons in the campaign which are CR 7 to 10 depending on curtain factors.
Gotcha, thanks for the quick run down.
believe it or not I like the deep breath ability (though not at +4 dice and +4 on the save. maybe 2 and 2. I like it because it adds tactical dynamics to the battle. the first time the party eats a powered up breath weapon they better recognize what a deep breath means ^_^
I dig it too, just wasn't sure until now how e6 worked, so thought it might be too harsh. The descriptive text is great - reminds me of the old movies where the dragon reared back before breathing.
what about Spell Resist? why does the template remove spell resist? It seems like keeping standard dragon spell resist is fair is there a dynamic I am missing?
If there is, we both might be missing it. I know in 3.5, the dragon was generally on the high-end of power for their CR, so that might be why. Looking at it now, dragons don't get spell resistance until young adult, so for most of your dragons it wouldn't matter anyway.
If you gave the lower level dragons the SR, anyway, it would be a bit more dangerous. A dragon's SR is equal to 11 + its CR and the average SR roll for a caster at that level (level 6) would be 16.5 (for an e6 campaign, excluding any feats). So at CR 10 they'd need a roll of 21. With spell penetration & greater, it would be a good bit closer.
good points.
I think its fair to say I will simply have to do my best and mod on the fly. I want casters to be able to hit with a spell about 1/2 of the time (before saves) so I will make spell resist work about at that level also in an e6 campeign players tend to do a lot more customization. (since the focus is on personalizing rather than proper min/max at level 20 or what ever.)
thanks for your feedback.
wish Piazo did their own take on non-caster dragons. I just like them so much more.
good points.
I think its fair to say I will simply have to do my best and mod on the fly. I want casters to be able to hit with a spell about 1/2 of the time (before saves) so I will make spell resist work about at that level also in an e6 campeign players tend to do a lot more customization. (since the focus is on personalizing rather than proper min/max at level 20 or what ever.)
thanks for your feedback.
wish Piazo did their own take on non-caster dragons. I just like them so much more.
No problem.
Yeah, I think they sorta tried to do the non-caster dragons with the linnorms, but they just don't appeal to me as written. I've been considering taking them and and converting them to a draconic age progression so I have more options with their challenge ratings in lieu of the normal CR 16+. However, I also have an 8 month old daughter, so the only time I can work on this sort of thing is when she's sleeping.
I like the idea of using the linnorm as a general template. . though it falls into the same problem of not having a lower level verity.
I will probably just use the template for dragons in the CR 6 to 10 range and use a few feats and such instead of spells. should not be too hard.