I'm going to run a short PBP campaign off of this site, as the homebrew setting I'm working on won't be ready for a while and I want to play. Here's the situation. Golarion picked up the idiot ball. It all started with a few nations who shall not be named at each others throats and inches away from war. Soon, however, things escalated as more and more people got dragged into the conflict, until it pretty much looked like World War Golarion was about to break out. It did, and as the war dragged on nations started bringing in their best spellcasters to assure victory. What happened next isn't particularly clear. Someone did something stupid, and the entire surface of the world got razed with magical energy, destroying the cities and towns and devastating the wilds. To make matters worse, the gods abandoned Golarion after this happened. Only Mother Nature herself remains, and is the sole source of divine magic. The elves, gnomes, and halflings vanished into thin air and are widely believed to be extinct and the dwarves retreated into their mines and haven't been seen since. Humans have retreated into what wilds remained undestroyed after the apocalypse, living a stone age existence. Now, however, it's been several decades, and nature has reclaimed the world. The vast tracks of destroyed wilderness have recovered and returned to their former splendor and the ruins of civilization have likewise returned to nature. Now, the leaders of the humans in one of these isolated wilderness settlements have decided that it is time to send some people (the PCs) into the world at large to investigate what it now looks like and see what useful things they can find (specifically, lost knowledge such as technology).
Here's the thing. Several classes, such as the Cleric and Wizard, are banned for not fitting into the campaign. I don't want to add Paladin to this list. However, all divine magic comes from nature. This means all Paladins would be servants of nature. I feel that this should mean that they should be Neutral Good (I'm basing this off of the Druid alignment restriction) or, if Anti-Paladins, Neutral Evil. Does changing their spell list to remove law specific spells and tweaking their code of conduct do it for you guys, or should I go further to make them more naturey? If so, what should I do? Change their spell list? Replace Channel Energy with something else?
Also, should I ban the Inquisitor? I'm on the fence about them. Would they make sense as servants of nature?
I'd just use Rangers in place of Paladins. The Ranger spell list and all fits much better with the whole nature theme.
Inquisitors make sense as agents of anything divine. Paladins are harder to include, but do not change their alignment, or they are no longer paladins.
Instead, flavor them as the rare agents of whatever divine presence remains, empowered either by sheer LGness, or as the last defenders and guardians of Good gods who simply can't totally abandon Golarion. Of course, nobody knows the source of these people's power, which could bring some very interesting RP to it, as what normally would be instantly recognized as "He's a good guy!" could be mistaken for something foul and evil.
Inquisitors make sense as agents of anything divine. Paladins are harder to include, but do not change their alignment, or they are no longer paladins.
I never agreed with that. I liked the Unearthed Arcana alternate Paladins.
Instead, flavor them as the rare agents of whatever divine presence remains, empowered either by sheer LGness, or as the last defenders and guardians of Good gods who simply can't totally abandon Golarion. Of course, nobody knows the source of these people's power, which could bring some very interesting RP to it, as what normally would be instantly recognized as "He's a good guy!" could be mistaken for something foul and evil.
Nope. There are no deities whatsoever anymore. They are all gone.
I'd just use Rangers in place of Paladins. The Ranger spell list and all fits much better with the whole nature theme.
I see Rangers as people who are really well trained in the art of living in concert with nature and Paladins as the people who crusade for her.
Perhaps all Rangers could be Skirmishers (so no spells) and Paladins could get the Ranger spell list and Survival and Knowledge Nature as class skills?
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Spoiler:I'm going to run a short PBP campaign off of this site, as the homebrew setting I'm working on won't be ready for a while and I want to play. Here's the situation. Golarion picked up the idiot ball. It all started with a few nations who shall not be named at each others throats and inches away from war. Soon, however, things escalated as more and more people got dragged into the conflict, until it pretty much looked like World War Golarion was about to break out. It did, and as the war dragged on nations started bringing in their best spellcasters to assure victory. What happened next isn't particularly clear. Someone did something stupid, and the entire surface of the world got razed with magical energy, destroying the cities and towns and devastating the wilds. To make matters worse, the gods abandoned Golarion after this happened. Only Mother Nature herself remains, and is the sole source of divine magic. The elves, gnomes, and halflings vanished into thin air and are widely believed to be extinct and the dwarves retreated into their mines and haven't been seen since. Humans have retreated into what wilds remained undestroyed after the apocalypse, living a stone age existence. Now, however, it's been several decades, and nature has reclaimed the world. The vast tracks of destroyed wilderness have recovered and returned to their former splendor and the ruins of civilization have likewise returned to nature. Now, the leaders of the humans in one of these isolated wilderness settlements have decided that it is time to send some people (the PCs) into the world at large to investigate what it now looks like and see what useful things they can find (specifically, lost knowledge such as technology).
You're going pretty far off the beaten path of the published campaign setting, so you're going to have some work ahead of you adapting published material.
Just off the top of my head I would suggest checking out the philosophies on page 236 of the Inner Sea World Guide. Without gods, those philosophies could fill the social void left by the loss of religious institutions. Diabolism and the Prophecies of Kalistrade could provide drive to rebuild civilization and restore social order, while the Green Faith could form the basis for various "mother nature" themed religions. The Whispering Way could continue as a nihilistic "the world should have ended for good" cult. Etc.
Porting over mysticism from Dragonlance might be a good starting point to dealing with godless divine magic.
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I see Rangers as people who are really well trained in the art of living in concert with nature and Paladins as the people who crusade for her.
Perhaps all Rangers could be Skirmishers (so no spells) and Paladins could get the Ranger spell list and Survival and Knowledge Nature as class skills?
That could work. Also, you don't have to change the paladin's alignment. I don't see any reason why a nature paladin couldn't be lawful good. Plus, if you make all rangers into spell-less skirmishers and leave paladins as LG then you now have a spot for Inquisitors to fill.
I see Rangers as people who are really well trained in the art of living in concert with nature and Paladins as the people who crusade for her.
Perhaps all Rangers could be Skirmishers (so no spells) and Paladins could get the Ranger spell list and Survival and Knowledge Nature as class skills?
I like this idea. Why should Rangers be Divine Casters anyways?
I like this idea. Why should Rangers be Divine Casters anyways?I see Rangers as people who are really well trained in the art of living in concert with nature and Paladins as the people who crusade for her.
Perhaps all Rangers could be Skirmishers (so no spells) and Paladins could get the Ranger spell list and Survival and Knowledge Nature as class skills?
I agree, that's why I started using the traps option from Ultimate Magic for Rangers in place of spells. After making a few more custom traps to balance things out, I found traps added a greater sense of individuality to the Ranger
Isn't there a Nature Warden prestige class out there some where?
Isn't there a Nature Warden prestige class out there some where?
Yes. In the Advanced Players Guide.
Isn't there a Nature Warden prestige class out there some where?Yes. In the Advanced Players Guide.
Ok, then there is your Nature Paladin.
*Edit= Well his, lol, not yours.
Hardly. The aim here is to keep the paladin in a setting in which he doesn't quite fit. throwing out the entire class and replacing it with something radically different that does a similar job if you squint is completely missing the point.
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I say change the paladin like this:
- relax the alignment restriction to any good
- Put him in non-metal medium armour, but add a slow DR/cold iron progression to compensate
- ranger spell list
- Change smite to affect all evil creatures, all undead, all aberrations and all constructs. If a creature is evil AND one of the effected creature types, it takes double damage.
- Make him choose between the nature, earth, wind, fire, water, weather, farming, sun and hunting variant channelling options
- Replace bonds with a variation on the anti-paladin's companion, but base it on Summon Nature's Ally instead of Summon Monster
- swap knowledge (nobility) and knowledge (religion) for knowledge (nature) and survival
- Give him a new code of conduct based around protecting life and the natural order
- Change holy champion to kill one of the creature types affected by smite outright rather than banish fiends
Actually, I'm working on an archetype that does this right now. I will have it up on My Blog tomorrow. I'll be sure to come back to this thread and post it once it's up.
...Catch Phrase,
-Chris
P.S. - And the inquisitor should be just fine. It's one of the most versatile classes, flavor-wise, out there, and the addition of inquisitions just allow it to shine even more.
Actually, I'm working on an archetype that does this right now. I will have it up on My Blog tomorrow. I'll be sure to come back to this thread and post it once it's up.
...Catch Phrase,
-Chris
P.S. - And the inquisitor should be just fine. It's one of the most versatile classes, flavor-wise, out there, and the addition of inquisitions just allow it to shine even more.
Bold= All I was thinking about was the Spanish Inquisitions, lol.
Cranewings, they'll still BE unique. That's the point. The normal kind will not exist in the setting.
Some quick thoughts on a paladin revamp:
Warden
- Must be true neutral instead of lawful good.
- Add Knowledge (Nature) and Survival to skill list. Remove Knowledge (Nobility).
- Smite Evil targets the four extremes, lawful good, chaotic good, lawful evil and chaotic evil. Deals extra damage against undead and aberrations instead of the usual paladin enemies.
- Replace Detect Evil with Detect Extremity. Tells you whether or not the target is one of the alignment extremes or not.
- Replace all aura abilties with druid abilities like woodland stride and venom immunity
- Rename Divine Grace to Nature's Grace
- Replace the divine bond mount options with the ranger animal companion selection
- Replace divine bond bonded weapon option with the option to shapechange as a druid
- Replace paladin spell list with ranger spell list
Some quick thoughts on a paladin revamp:
Warden
- Must be true neutral instead of lawful good.
- Add Knowledge (Nature) and Survival to skill list. Remove Knowledge (Nobility).
- Smite Evil targets the four extremes, lawful good, chaotic good, lawful evil and chaotic evil. Deals extra damage against undead and aberrations instead of the usual paladin enemies.
- Replace Detect Evil with Detect Extremity. Tells you whether or not the target is one of the alignment extremes or not.
- Replace all aura abilties with druid abilities like woodland stride and venom immunity
- Rename Divine Grace to Nature's Grace
- Replace the divine bond mount options with the ranger animal companion selection
- Replace divine bond bonded weapon option with the option to shapechange as a druid
- Replace paladin spell list with ranger spell list
I agree with this. I think that would make a great Nature Paladin.
That would actually work well with my setting. Would it be ok to ad Outsiders to the list for Smite Evil?
Aaaaand...here it is.
It's called the Guardian of the Green.
Linkage. Hope y'all enjoy!
...Catch Phrase,
-Chris
Some quick thoughts on a paladin revamp:
Warden
- Must be true neutral instead of lawful good.
- Add Knowledge (Nature) and Survival to skill list. Remove Knowledge (Nobility).
- Smite Evil targets the four extremes, lawful good, chaotic good, lawful evil and chaotic evil. Deals extra damage against undead and aberrations instead of the usual paladin enemies.
- Replace Detect Evil with Detect Extremity. Tells you whether or not the target is one of the alignment extremes or not.
- Replace all aura abilties with druid abilities like woodland stride and venom immunity
- Rename Divine Grace to Nature's Grace
- Replace the divine bond mount options with the ranger animal companion selection
- Replace divine bond bonded weapon option with the option to shapechange as a druid
- Replace paladin spell list with ranger spell list
I agree with this. I think that would make a great Nature Paladin.
That would actually work well with my setting. Would it be ok to ad Outsiders to the list for Smite Evil?
Yeah, but you should keep it to extremetiy aligned outsiders I think. All outsiders might be a tad powerful.
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Hardly. The aim here is to keep the paladin in a setting in which he doesn't quite fit. throwing out the entire class and replacing it with something radically different that does a similar job if you squint is completely missing the point.
.
I say change the paladin like this:
- relax the alignment restriction to any good
- Put him in non-metal medium armour, but add a slow DR/cold iron progression to compensate
- ranger spell list
- Change smite to affect all evil creatures, all undead, all aberrations and all constructs. If a creature is evil AND one of the effected creature types, it takes double damage.
- Make him choose between the nature, earth, wind, fire, water, weather, farming, sun and hunting variant channelling options
- Replace bonds with a variation on the anti-paladin's companion, but base it on Summon Nature's Ally instead of Summon Monster
- swap knowledge (nobility) and knowledge (religion) for knowledge (nature) and survival
- Give him a new code of conduct based around protecting life and the natural order
- Change holy champion to kill one of the creature types affected by smite outright rather than banish fiends
I agree that tweaking Ranger and calling it Paladin misses the point, but then again, these changes seem like Ranger in the skin of a Paladin.
A Paladin does not HAVE to have a deity. Instead he can have philosophies guide the way. Nature, being neutral, could still be the source of his power. So then it becomes a question of what is the philosophy the Paladin stands for. S/he could stand for the idea of civilization and the rule of law, a return to the days of our forefathers. Tradition would be important as would restoring order throughout the wilds of the world.
In this role s/he is not so much a crusader for Good, but a crusader for Law, Order and Society. Makes a great contrasting role for the setting (and fits the theme of exploring the New World for ancient knowledge theme). Also in this capacity the class has no need to change at all.
Krome has it right. Paladins don't need to receive their powers from Gods.
The default Paladin in fact doesn't, even if they respect gods and may worship them like any pious person (Fighter, etc).
(there is an Archetype for Paladins receiving their Powers from Gods, and PrCs that do the same, but that isn't standard)
So if all Gods are no longer granting powers, that really doesn't change anything for Paladins.
Paladins are able to excercise their powers by deign of being so in tune with Cosmic Lawful Goodness.
That doesn't seem like something that has ceased to exist in this game world.
In fact, you can see Paladinhood as an exemplary of ALL sapient souls with free will to most strongly connect with the LG-ness that potentially flows thru all souls, Paladins are just going deeper into this than normal LG people, but it is a latent power of all souls... NOT one 'granted' by outside powers (that can be cut off).
I strongly suggest just going with Deity-less Paladins as is.
You can bar Deity-specific Archetypes, or make them only work with Nature Domains.
I wouldn't change any of the Alignment stuff even in that case, you can connect with Nature while still being LG.
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I agree, that's why I started using the traps option from Ultimate Magic for Rangers in place of spells. After making a few more custom traps to balance things out, I found traps added a greater sense of individuality to the RangerI like this idea. Why should Rangers be Divine Casters anyways?I see Rangers as people who are really well trained in the art of living in concert with nature and Paladins as the people who crusade for her.
Perhaps all Rangers could be Skirmishers (so no spells) and Paladins could get the Ranger spell list and Survival and Knowledge Nature as class skills?
Have you taken a look at the Spell-less Ranger class in Kobold Quarterly issue 11?
If you want a non-spellcasting ranger class, I think this one is well worth your time :)