I'm creating a set of rules (Sloops and Sabers) for playing Pathfinder in the 17th/18th/early 19th century. One issue I came across is guns:
Muskets take forever to load. I'd say three full round actions (two for someone with the Rapid Reload feat) is about appropriate. Pistols aren't as but, but still take a while. That'll either suck pretty much all the fun out of the game or force people to carry a bunch of guns (as was common in real life among some pirates) or only use guns at the start of the battle.
Yet this is D&D. There is lots of magic. I can't see why a wizard couldn't magically seal the breach of a musket against the firing pressure, allowing the safe construction of breech loading muskets without the problems real life ones had. The same applies to gunpowder. I'm sure an alchemical substance with the power of black powder but without the smokiness could be created. If it could be enchanted to clump up so it can be made in premeasured solid charges, even better. Add in a magical percussion cap embedded in the charge (real life flintlocks misfired about 15% of the time, and most players won't want to tolerate that), and it'll actually fire. To deal with the inherent accuracy issues, add octagonal rifling, which'll be more practical for a breech loader than for a muzzle loader. To load, all you have to do is open a hatch at the rear of the barrel, insert a musket ball and a charge, shut the hatch, cock the hammer, and fire. It could be done as a move action, or as free action if you have the Rapid Reload feat.
These weapons would fire much more quickly, solving the long reload issue. The rifling would solve some of the accuracy issues (Period octagonal rifles could shoot a ball 100-300 yards with a fair level of accuracy, and remained deadly far beyond that range.), but this would still be a relatively close range weapon. This is precisely what I want. I don't want these weapons to be too accurate, which is part of why they still fire spherical rounds. I want to maintain the feel of close range weapons firing spherical rounds, with melee combat still being relevant, especially at sea or in urban combat (not so much so in larger land battles), but I don't want players to have to deal with the inherent issues of muzzle loading matchlocks, wheellocks, and flintlocks. For those who would complain that this isn't really true to the time period, D&D is about as medieval as Monty Python on the holy grail: all heme, no realism. The D&D 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide 2 outright says D&D shouldn't be too true to the real medieval period. This is no different.
This rule set will include rules for non-magical muzzle loading matchlocks, wheellocks, and flintlocks, as well as non-magical breechloaders for those who want to be authentic, but I will probably be using these magical muskets.
I went through the Pathfinder core classes from the Core Rulebook and Advanced Players Guide, and all of them except the fighter and cavalier should work fine with guns. The fighter will work fine with a bit of tweaking (getting rid of armor mastery), and the cavalier needs a lot of tweaking, though I personally think an 18th century style cavalier could be awesome if done correctly. Surprisingly, the barbarian, where I suspected the most problems with guns, should work just fine do to my ruling that magical breechloading muskets can be loaded during a rage (A muzzleloader cannot, however. Too complicated.), and any handheld firearm may be fired during a rage. Furthermore, anyone proficient with a firearm is also considered proficient when swinging it like a club (which I could so see a barbarian doing in the middle of a rage). Armor will be replaced with the defense bonus system from 3.5's Unearthed Arcana, tweaked as necessary.
The one issue I have is what spells and caster level these magical muskets should need to be constructed. It should be able to be done by somebody of low level (say CR 1-3), as I plan for these weapons to be standard issue in the military, but how low? I'm creating an NPC class that is great at cheaply creating magic items (A world in which most commoners can afford to have a few minor magic items would be awesome), but I still need to know what spells would be necessary to create such a weapon.
Also, I am aware that reliable breechloaders will pretty much kill 18th century land combat tactics. Marching in even lines while wearing brightly colored uniforms against rapid fire rifles is just asking for a massacre. I taking this into account in creating the typical land warfare tactics of this world. I'll probably have to tweak naval combat, too (This being the "Age of Sail", and me loving naval combat and history, this rule set will have the best naval combat and sailing systems I can come up with).
I have read that Ultimate Combat has firearms, but I do not have access to that book and have never read it, so I have no idea how my weapons compare to those in Ultimate Combat. Can anyone tell me?
Oh, and in my system most pistols do 1d8 damage while most muskets do 1d12. Range increment varies from 20 to 100 feet depending on the weapon.
The firearms rules for ultimate combat are freely available in the PRD here
In terms of my opinion, you will have ALOT of trouble if you get hung up on 'realism' with black powder weapons. Pathfinder is still 3rd edition based, which means as a martial character if you aren't full attacking you are wasting your time for the most part. If you dont make that possible with standard firearms you may as well not include them. Paizo tried to account for this with their 'touch attack' mechanics for firearms but that just leads to a whole host of other problems, and honestly I dont plan to use them in my game, nor would I use the rules you are presenting. Not because I dislike the flavor of firearms in a pathfinder game, on the contrary. But I have yet see them implemented in a way in which they are not pointlessly handicapped or stupidly overpowered.
The firearms rules for ultimate combat are freely available in the PRD here
In terms of my opinion, you will have ALOT of trouble if you get hung up on 'realism' with black powder weapons. Pathfinder is still 3rd edition based, which means as a martial character if you aren't full attacking you are wasting your time for the most part. If you dont make that possible with standard firearms you may as well not include them. Paizo tried to account for this with their 'touch attack' mechanics for firearms but that just leads to a whole host of other problems, and honestly I dont plan to use them in my game, nor would I use the rules you are presenting. Not because I dislike the flavor of firearms in a pathfinder game, on the contrary. But I have yet see them implemented in a way in which they are not pointlessly handicapped or stupidly overpowered.
What changes would you recommend I make to my rules? I want guns to be the primary weapons, but I want melee combat to still have a reasonable chance of occurring, especially where monsters are involved.
The reason I made these magical breech loaders is to allow martial characters to attack every round by reloading quickly. If you have Rapid Reload, you could full attack with a musket.
I don't think I'll be using the Ultimate Combat rules for firearms, though I may allow the gunslinger class with a couple tweaks.
The firearms rules for ultimate combat are freely available in the PRD here
In terms of my opinion, you will have ALOT of trouble if you get hung up on 'realism' with black powder weapons. Pathfinder is still 3rd edition based, which means as a martial character if you aren't full attacking you are wasting your time for the most part. If you dont make that possible with standard firearms you may as well not include them. Paizo tried to account for this with their 'touch attack' mechanics for firearms but that just leads to a whole host of other problems, and honestly I dont plan to use them in my game, nor would I use the rules you are presenting. Not because I dislike the flavor of firearms in a pathfinder game, on the contrary. But I have yet see them implemented in a way in which they are not pointlessly handicapped or stupidly overpowered.
What if I nixed the full attack ability in total, and compensated with a base damage bonus allowing characters to deal extra damage at higher levels instead of make extra attacks? That could conceivably handle the issue of firearm's reload speeds.
What changes would you recommend I make to my rules? I want guns to be the primary weapons, but I want melee combat to still have a reasonable chance of occurring, especially where monsters are involved.
The one thing you have to consider is making melee still a part of the game is different from requiring all characters to do both melee and ranged. In general only fighters and rangers can really pull that off. Most characters focus on or the other. If you expect a character to pop off a brace of pistols and then go into combat, you have to set up the rules so there is some actual reason to do this (i recommend archetypes for the martial classes that take advantage of this style of play).
The reason I made these magical breech loaders is to allow martial characters to attack every round by reloading quickly.
The magical weapons are nice, but consider this, are they a workaround or a tax? How much does it cost to have these magical breachloaders? Do you still need feats to have iterative attacks? Does the simple cost of a weapon that is useful make up a significant portion of a characters wealth? If the any of these are the case (inherent feat or monetary coasts for using gunys) then what reason does a player have to bother when a sword and a bow will be better 90% of the time? That is really the hardest thing to accomplish with firearms rules, because their basis (black powder weapons) were at the time inferior weapons, so the realism is nice, but it doesn't make for good game rules.
Remember ranged characters dont just need to attack every round, but multiple times a round. If a ranged character isn't at least rapid shotting and using iterative attacks then they are not going to be effective compared to what other characters can do. Is your sense of realism able to handle 3 or 4 shots a round with your weapons? If not, you may see the guns get very little use, or disappointed players if they do try to use them.
What if I nixed the full attack ability in total, and compensated with a base damage bonus allowing characters to deal extra damage at higher levels instead of make extra attacks? That could conceivably handle the issue of firearm's reload speeds.
It could, but it will throw the rest of the combat system WAAAAY out of balance. Trying to take iterative attacks out of pathfinder is more or less open heart surgery. Challenging in the best of circumstances, and you damn well better have a REALLY good idea what you are doing before even trying.
What changes would you recommend I make to my rules? I want guns to be the primary weapons, but I want melee combat to still have a reasonable chance of occurring, especially where monsters are involved.
The one thing you have to consider is making melee still a part of the game is different from requiring all characters to do both melee and ranged. In general only fighters and rangers can really pull that off. Most characters focus on or the other. If you expect a character to pop off a brace of pistols and then go into combat, you have to set up the rules so there is some actual reason to do this (i recommend archetypes for the martial classes that take advantage of this style of play).
The reason I made these magical breech loaders is to allow martial characters to attack every round by reloading quickly.
The magical weapons are nice, but consider this, are they a workaround or a tax? How much does it cost to have these magical breachloaders? Do you still need feats to have iterative attacks? Does the simple cost of a weapon that is useful make up a significant portion of a characters wealth? If the any of these are the case (inherent feat or monetary coasts for using gunys) then what reason does a player have to bother when a sword and a bow will be better 90% of the time? That is really the hardest thing to accomplish with firearms rules, because their basis (black powder weapons) were at the time inferior weapons, so the realism is nice, but it doesn't make for good game rules.
Remember ranged characters dont just need to attack every round, but multiple times a round. If a ranged character isn't at least rapid shotting and using iterative attacks then they are not going to be effective compared to what other characters can do. Is your sense of realism able to handle 3 or 4 shots a round with your weapons? If not, you may see the guns get very little use, or disappointed players if they do try to use them.
I plan to make this a game world where most people, even commoners, can afford to own three or four minor magic items (do to an NPC class designed for creating them cheaply), and these guns are considered minor magical items. You could have one with your starting equipment easily. This type of gun is both cheap and widely available.
I have an idea for handling the full attack issue: instead of making full attacks, you extra dice of damage as you level up. Simply put, any time you would gain an extra attack do to a high BAB or otherwise get extra attacks in a round, make a second (Or third or fourth or whatever) attack roll at the appropriate bonus, and for each successful roll your first attack does an extra die of damage (or two dice if the weapon does two dice of damage), with appropriate damage modifiers applied separately to each die (So if you have 16 strength you add 3 damage to each die of damage, not to the total damage done). Under this system you only make on attack per round, but have exactly the same damage potential as someone making a full attack. A great system for firearms, since you get the same damage as a full attack without having to load and fire four times a round. If used, this system will apply to all attacks, melee and ranged, except certain monster full attack actions that make more sense as separate attacks or when fighting with two weapons (in which case you attack twice in a round with extra die added to each weapon as appropriate). You must take a full round action to add extra damage dice to an attack. You cannot use this ability and am ove action in the same round. Like this system?
What if I nixed the full attack ability in total, and compensated with a base damage bonus allowing characters to deal extra damage at higher levels instead of make extra attacks? That could conceivably handle the issue of firearm's reload speeds.It could, but it will throw the rest of the combat system WAAAAY out of balance. Trying to take iterative attacks out of pathfinder is more or less open heart surgery. Challenging in the best of circumstances, and you damn well better have a REALLY good idea what you are doing before even trying.
Think I found a workable way to do this. See my above post. I would essentially keep the full attack system intact, but suppose that it adds the damage from the successful extra attack rolls to the first attack instead of having a character make multiple attacks. The damage potential remains exactly the same, but only one attack is made per round (or two if dual wielding), which makes muskets seem more feasible, especially since the magic ones can be reloaded as a free action, allowing full attack damage every round while only firing one shot a round.