I am considering allowing untrained characters to use Knowledge local. I don't really think it throws the bard off or reduces the viability of taking ranks in that skill.
I am running Carrion Crown, and alot of knowledge checks are local. the DC10 and sometimes DC15 for Local knowledge anyway is information a local can learn in a pub. 15 is a bit high end, but also hard to remember unless you have a high intelligence. At least for Haunting of Harrowstone, an untrained local who also happens to be a supra genius can know a DC 25 local check 5% of the time. That does not seem unreasonable.
I don't like the idea of any other knowledge skill being used untrained.
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I am considering allowing untrained characters to use Knowledge local. I don't really think it throws the bard off or reduces the viability of taking ranks in that skill.
I am running Carrion Crown, and alot of knowledge checks are local. the DC10 and sometimes DC15 for Local knowledge anyway is information a local can learn in a pub. 15 is a bit high end, but also hard to remember unless you have a high intelligence. At least for Haunting of Harrowstone, an untrained local who also happens to be a supra genius can know a DC 25 local check 5% of the time. That does not seem unreasonable.
I don't like the idea of any other knowledge skill being used untrained.
Ah, so you think any random dude should be able to attempt DC 10 Kn(Local) checks? Incidentally, the CRB agrees with you!
You cannot make an untrained Knowledge check with a DC higher than 10.
Ta-da!
I am considering allowing untrained characters to use Knowledge local. I don't really think it throws the bard off or reduces the viability of taking ranks in that skill.
I am running Carrion Crown, and alot of knowledge checks are local. the DC10 and sometimes DC15 for Local knowledge anyway is information a local can learn in a pub. 15 is a bit high end, but also hard to remember unless you have a high intelligence. At least for Haunting of Harrowstone, an untrained local who also happens to be a supra genius can know a DC 25 local check 5% of the time. That does not seem unreasonable.
I don't like the idea of any other knowledge skill being used untrained.
Ah, so you think any random dude should be able to attempt DC 10 Kn(Local) checks? Incidentally, the CRB agrees with you!
You cannot make an untrained Knowledge check with a DC higher than 10.Ta-da!
I thought that was only if they had access to a library. But fair enough. In any case, I think a knowledge (local) should be allowed untrained for any Difficulty. After all they will never be able to answer something higher than dc 20 without an intelligence boost.
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I thought that was only if they had access to a library. But fair enough. In any case, I think a knowledge (local) should be allowed untrained for any Difficulty. After all they will never be able to answer something higher than dc 20 without an intelligence boost.
Nope, the library removes the DC 10 cap (and if it's a pretty nice one, might even grant a bonus on the check).
I'm curious, though - what sorts of Kn(Loc) checks are higher than DC 10 that couldn't be circumvented by instead using Diplomacy to gather information?
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I'd always thought of Knowledge (local) to be exactly that--local to a particular city, town, or hamlet. PF seems to describe it as the ability to know the "local goings-on" of a place, and how quickly someone tunes into them. I suppose I can grok that. Say, Diplomacy is making friendships and influencing others...while Knowledge (local) is knowing what to listen for, and where to listen for it within different cities. It's knowing to go up and strike up a conversation with the washerwomen.
If you'd like a different interpretation, what about something like this?
- Divide Knowledge (local) into regions. For instance, Knowledge (particular kingdom). Then, rule that for each character, wherever they're from, that region's Knowledge (local) is always a class skill.
I've seen similar things done other places, and it has never seemed to hurt. Some DMs even awarded a free number of skill points to Knowledge (Hamletville). This wasn't much--just 3 skill points, which these days is equivalent to a PF Class Skill.
I give circumstance reductions to the DC based off of how familiar the person is with the area/culture/group that he is rolling knowledge local for. What would be a DC10 for someone who lives in the town might be a DC15 for someone new.
I thought that was only if they had access to a library. But fair enough. In any case, I think a knowledge (local) should be allowed untrained for any Difficulty. After all they will never be able to answer something higher than dc 20 without an intelligence boost.Nope, the library removes the DC 10 cap (and if it's a pretty nice one, might even grant a bonus on the check).
I'm curious, though - what sorts of Kn(Loc) checks are higher than DC 10 that couldn't be circumvented by instead using Diplomacy to gather information?
None really. But maybe there is a character that is a horrible diplomat. I am just looking at it as another avenue is all. There really is nothing that gather info could not circumvent. This would just allow a character to know something off the cuff.
I suggest giving every character a free point in it at level one (or later as it sounds like your group is already into the AP). If given at level one, I’d require some type of explanation/backstory that explains it. If you are already into the story, I’d just say their experience in-game explains it.
I’ve given out free skill points like this before and so has one of our other GMs. We haven’t seen any balance problems, though all of our experience doing this is from 3.5, and we have only done it for knowledge and profession skills (and others, but those can be used untrained). It was a lot more powerful in 3.5 (for the game we wanted anyway) with c.c. skills requiring double cost and all, so I think it would work okay in PF.
I do like the idea of each party member picking up different tidbits of local knowledge instead of the bard being the one who knows EVERYTHING. I mean the bard will still know EVERYTHING, but hopefully she/he will be magnanimous enough to let the others show off their limited knowledge. ;) Plus the bard may not always be there to know stuff for you right?
Knowledge (Local) is one of the worst named skills in the game because it gives the false impression that it is tied to a specific area like a characters home town. Knowledge (Local) is more like sociology, anthropology, travel guide and tour guide all rolled into one. So while it makes sense that a character would know things about their home areas or regions, Knowledge (local) actually covers all areas and regions at once.
If you wanted to allow players to make Knowledge (Local) checks unrestricted I would suggest that being in the area or region in question counts as access to a library which removes the maximum DC 10 restriction for knowledge checks.