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Is there any practical advantage to using both the Hat of Disguise and Armor with the Glamered enchantment? The exact wording on each:
Hat of Disguise:
This apparently normal hat allows its wearer to alter her appearance as with a disguise self spell. As part of the disguise, the hat can be changed to appear as a comb, ribbon, headband, cap, coif, hood, helmet, and so on.Disguise Self:
You make yourself - including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment - look different. You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your creature type (although you can appear as another subtype). Otherwise, the extent of the apparent change is up to you. You could add or obscure a minor feature or look like an entirely different person or gender.The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the chosen form, nor does it alter the perceived tactile (touch) or audible (sound) properties of you or your equipment. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on the Disguise check. A creature that interacts with the glamer gets a Will save to recognize it as an illusion.
Glamered Enchantment:
Upon command, a suit of glamered armor changes shape and appearance to assume the form of a normal set of clothing. The armor retains all its properties (including weight) when it is so disguised. Only a true seeing spell or similar magic reveals the true nature of the armor when disguised.
Both items use disguise self as a base component for item creation, but the wording of each item is a little vague. Could anyone make a reasonable case for there being a functional difference in how these two items operate, or any possible situational or numerical bonus for stacking them?
With both using Disguise Self there would be no benefit from using both items at the same time. The benefits do not stack with each other as a result.
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With both using Disguise Self there would be no benefit from using both items at the same time. The benefits do not stack with each other as a result.
If the Glamered Enchantment said it just mimicked the disguise self spell but limited it to clothing, it would be open and shut. The enchantment doesn't list anything about creating a disguise self effect, though. It just requires that spell as a component.
I personally see the wording as semantics in this situation. The difference between use and mimick is less important that the bonus they would be generating. The bonus is of the same type and thus would not stack, regardless of the wording.
That avatar, those words, it feels like I just crushed your world... *walks away feeling really guilty*
I've always interpreted the "as part of the disguise" part of the Hat's description to mean that you still need a "disguise" in terms of clothing. So, while the hat can make an Elf look like a Human town guard, the hat won't duplicate the guard's uniform, which the player would need to acquire by other means.
As for the "Glamered" enchantment, I've often wondered about the phrase, "the form of *a* normal set of clothing"--it says "a" set, not multiple sets, which suggests that it has *one* (and only one) set of normal clothing it can resemble. So, maybe it can look like a particular noble's outfit--in one style and color--or maybe it can look like a specific Traveler's Outfit, again, it will only duplicate ONE specific style, color, etc.--but always the same outfit.
I think the hat is more debatable, but I recognize that I may be applying an overly strict construction of the Glamered enchantment's description.
I do note that the Glamered enchantment says nothing about changing the appearance of the *wearer*--just the armor into clothing...
(I *am* a lawyer, FWIW). :-)
Edit: In other words, I don't think one makes the other duplicative.
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That avatar, those words, it feels like I just crushed your world... *walks away feeling really guilty*
Not at all! My PC erroneously bought both for a campaign we just started, and someone in the group pointed out that having both was probably unnecessary. The GM asked me to float the idea here. Your input, in fact, saves me the money I spent on the Glamer enchantment, allowing me to reallocate it elsewhere. It's good news, promise!
I've always interpreted the "as part of the disguise" part of the Hat's description to mean that you still need a "disguise" in terms of clothing.
I didn't interpret it as such. The first sentence of the disguise self spell reads "You make yourself - including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment - look different." In fact, you deliberately can replicate a specific guard's uniform, but the armor wouldn't clink, and if someone touched it, it wouldn't feel like anything other than whatever you were actually wearing. Explain your reasoning?
I've always interpreted the "as part of the disguise" part of the Hat's description to mean that you still need a "disguise" in terms of clothing. So, while the hat can make an Elf look like a Human town guard, the hat won't duplicate the guard's uniform, which the player would need to acquire by other means.
I disagree. The hat of disguise allows you to change your appearance as if using disguise self, meaning you can change your clothing to match as per the quote in the OP. The "as part of the disguise" portion is only there to make it clear that your magical hat isn't sitting on your head while the rest of you is changed. If your hat didn't change with the rest of your outfit, it would be a dead giveaway to anyone who had seen such a hat before.
EDIT*: Ninja'd by Joseph.
As for the "Glamered" enchantment, I've often wondered about the phrase, "the form of *a* normal set of clothing"--it says "a" set, not multiple sets, which suggests that it has *one* (and only one) set of normal clothing it can resemble. So, maybe it can look like a particular noble's outfit--in one style and color--or maybe it can look like a specific Traveler's Outfit, again, it will only duplicate ONE specific style, color, etc.--but always the same outfit.
I think the hat is more debatable, but I recognize that I may be applying an overly strict construction of the Glamered enchantment's description.
I think that is definitely overly restrictive. It is a 2700 GP enhancement plus at least another 1000 for the +1 bonus prerequisite. Considering it does a small portion of what the hat does (which only costs 1800 gp btw) I don't see the need to restrict it to a single set of clothing.
Disguise self can be beaten easier than glamored.
Glamored specifically says only true seeing can penetrate it, and it actually changes shape and all.
So I would say, that glamored armor actually feels like clothing as well and can't be seen through just by disbelieving the illusion. Disguise self can.
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I have a question that rolls well into this discussion. I have a Oracle that has 'Extremely Fashionable' as a trait, and it functions only when clothing / jewelry > 150gp and not covered in slime and dirt.
Would a Glamored suit of armor be able to appear as such a outfit? I cannot see a reason it couldn't, as the armor and the enchantment cost are all well above 150 gp.
Any thoughts within the community?
I have a question that rolls well into this discussion. I have a Oracle that has 'Extremely Fashionable' as a trait, and it functions only when clothing / jewelry > 150gp and not covered in slime and dirt.
Would a Glamored suit of armor be able to appear as such a outfit? I cannot see a reason it couldn't, as the armor and the enchantment cost are all well above 150 gp.
Any thoughts within the community?
I'd say it could replicate the 150gp+ effect easily enough sure, but you'd be on your own to keep clean. My reasoning is the suit itself is worth several thousand, so it'd still be appearing cheaper then its monetary worth.
Where do you get the 10 minutes at a time bit? The Hat of Disguise mentions no time or usage limit, in contrast to the Robe of Blending (to cite one obvious example), which can be used once a day for a period of time unrelated to the caster level of the item.
Where do you get the 10 minutes at a time bit? The Hat of Disguise mentions no time or usage limit, in contrast to the Robe of Blending (to cite one obvious example), which can be used once a day for a period of time unrelated to the caster level of the item.
Its kind of implied by the cost.
At 1800 gp, its a command activated magic item with a level 1 CL.
No usage limit, but its just casting Disguise Self as per the spell (which would use the item's CL)... thus 10 minutes.A continuous version of the same would cost 3000.
So to keep it up, the character has to have a bit of a nervous tic (to cover the repeated recastings)? Got it.