Taking away someone's ability to text at will is no different than banning them from eating Doritos at the table. Since eating unhealthy food is a STAPLE of tabletop gaming, anyone advocating removing this is the rude one!
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I think I'll throw out there that my tasing story is not to be taken as being against electronic devices (which would be ironic)
* I use Hero Lab at the table as both a GM and player
* I use the SRD and PDF's instead of loading my car down with paper books
* I am totally stealing the idea of using text instead of passing notes
I am not against devices. I'm not against laptops or fumbling through the internet if it's related to the game that I carefully crafted over the past week so that I could entertain you.
But if I ask you what your character is going to do next, and your answer is "Oh guys, I gotta tell you. I was buying a slushy yesterday when I farted so hard that…" or "huh? What's going on? I didn't hear you, I was busy raiding with my Guild on WoW," then you better be wearing rubber underpants...
I am guessing the ages of the people on this board. I bet I am not far off.
Like it or not folks, texting/device use is here to stay. It is not the younger players that will need to change. It is us (I am 41).
If we want to keep a player base we will adapt to them, not vice-versa. Ask anyone trying to market products to younger consumers.
Heck even as "old" as I am I run a few PF apps on my droid phone when I am not running HeroLab on my tablet.
One time I even had my netbook, tablet and phone all going at one game. That was a strange situation since I had to keep three things up at once and my books were with another player in the room at the time. But usually I have one device for sure, likely two.
Yes, GMs have had to pull me out of the devices once or twice, because I was looking something up about my character or even for someone else's (something that happens more days than not due to players not having all the books) -- a spell description or what have you. If had been doing so in a book, it would have taken longer so the "distraction" would still have been there.
If GMs complain about my use of devices, I will find other GMs. It is not like I am disrupting the game any more than anyone needing a reference. Quite the opposite. Most times through d2pfsrd I can find information faster than those delving into books or asking what book something appears in.
For gamers that travel, devices will become the norm rather than the exception. It is easier to carry around a tablet and a phone than a bag full of books.
Don't like devices at the table? Fine, ban them. Then watch as younger players stop playing altogether in favor of pastimes where they can use their gadgets.
This isn't school or work. It is a game. As far as texting goes, that text or three keeps me from needing to answer the phone during the game most times. I suppose if you would rather have phone interruptions, so be it.
My devices are silent, with the exception of a deliberate sound effect for game...
I am 19 does this mean I can keep hating texting while playing. Okay looking up the rules I am fine with. If you are looking up rules I would be definitely okay. Heck It is if off topic activities at the table that can be the problem and keep being distracted. The devices are tools they can be used to help the game or be distractions.
I remember having a gm say that if you end up stacking dice you took that much damage as a player before me was stacking dice and not paying attention from the game. This does not mean dice should be banned from the game.
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My girlfriend currently does not mind my disappearance every Sunday for Eight hours to play.
If I tell her that she cannot text or communicate with me, she might develop a problem.
In a perfect world, there would be none of life's interruptions.
In a perfect world, the kids would know where they left their homework, toys, etc....
In a perfect world, I wouldn't need to be reminded to take out the garbage after my session, I would just remember.
Besides, I generally choose to return texts in the 10 minutes it takes the rogue in our party to figure out what he's going to do....
How do you feel, If you are the Gm, and you are running a game, and during one of your descriptions, you see one of your players texting at the gaming table?
How about if you are a player, and you see another player texting at the table?
Is it rude to do this?
Yes, it is rude, as far as we're concerned. No, none of us consider it to be acceptable behavior for our particular group.
If someone says they have to let their wife know about when they're coming home, they tell everyone first before doing so. Common courtesy. Random "communicating" won't be happening, though.
I don't text at all in the game - I have no one TO text or get texts from.My lack of suprise is palpable.
I bet you are overly distracted by what I am doing with my phone too. Perhaps you should keep your tentacles to yourself?
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I bet you are overly distracted by what I am doing with my phone too. Perhaps you should keep your tentacles to yourself?I don't text at all in the game - I have no one TO text or get texts from.My lack of suprise is palpable.
I could care less what you do with your phone, because I would never game with you. And our gaming styles being completely incompatible would be the least of the reasons why.
If, when we're playing, I see someone constantly texting or taking ordinary cell calls, then that tells me that you'd rather be somewhere else doing something else, than being here playing with us.
That is an assumption on your part. While I dont generally care for it I don't try to pretend to be a mind reader. Now if he ask me to repeat myself then we have an issue because at that point the bolded area has some merit.
Heh. Something tells me you text a lot at the game table Cartigan. Feeling somewhat put upon are we? Had some conflicts over texting have we? Too bad. When the majority of people at the table don't like it you're in the wrong. Change your behaviour or find another group.No, you have a problem with the game being slowed down that you are pawning off on texting.
I don't see how texting would slow down the game anyway. It's not instant communication like IM or something. It's 'turn-based' communication, for lack of a better word. When it's your turn, put the phone down, roll dice, pick it back up and go on.
What if the texter can text and not be distracted/slow the game down?
What if a person is slowing the game down without texting?
How do you feel, If you are the Gm, and you are running a game, and during one of your descriptions, you see one of your players texting at the gaming table?
How about if you are a player, and you see another player texting at the table?
Is it rude to do this?
Yes, it is rude, as far as we're concerned. No, none of us consider it to be acceptable behavior for our particular group.
If someone says they have to let their wife know about when they're coming home, they tell everyone first before doing so. Common courtesy. Random "communicating" won't be happening, though.
Wouldn't it be more distracting to say "hey group, stop what you are doing because I am about to text the wife that I will be home at 9 and wanted you to know before commencing the 10 second text"?
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I guess it all depends on how casual/formal your game sessions are, 2 in my group text infrequently, i keep my phone in my pocket and on airplane mode so that there isn't any annoying beeps. I respond to texts when I am not otherwise engaged in other matters.
Bigger Problems:
People who wait until their initiative count to finally think about what their characters are going to do.
People who cannot for the life of them add d6 totals in a REASONABLE amount of time.
People who cannot stop talking about last night's game...I wear glasses and play Pen and Paper RPG's I care nothing for football.
Texting the girlfriend to reassure them that they are NOT starting to look like their mother is not disruptive and serves important long term purposes for the rest of the week when not gaming.
I could care less what you do with your phone, because I would never game with you. And our gaming styles being completely incompatible would be the least of the reasons why.I bet you are overly distracted by what I am doing with my phone too. Perhaps you should keep your tentacles to yourself?I don't text at all in the game - I have no one TO text or get texts from.My lack of suprise is palpable.
I suspect entirely other reasons.
Heh. Something tells me you text a lot at the game table Cartigan. Feeling somewhat put upon are we? Had some conflicts over texting have we? Too bad. When the majority of people at the table don't like it you're in the wrong. Change your behaviour or find another group.No, you have a problem with the game being slowed down that you are pawning off on texting.
I don't see how texting would slow down the game anyway. It's not instant communication like IM or something. It's 'turn-based' communication, for lack of a better word. When it's your turn, put the phone down, roll dice, pick it back up and go on.
What if the texter can text and not be distracted/slow the game down?
What if a person is slowing the game down without texting?
Have not met one yet. If I was Gming I would want the player also paying attention when the monsters are going so if they take damage they aren't texting and forget to write it down or if any other effects or I need a saving throw. If it is not during the gms turn with monsters or the players turn and not taking forever to get attention then I could understand it. My worry will be players forgetting group buffs. I did think of a solution to that problem use spell cards and paper clip the spell card to the gm screen so you know which buff has been used in the encounter.
I guess it all depends on how casual/formal your game sessions are, 2 in my group text infrequently, i keep my phone in my pocket and on airplane mode so that there isn't any annoying beeps. I respond to texts when I am not otherwise engaged in other matters.
Bigger Problems:
People who wait until their initiative count to finally think about what their characters are going to do.
People who cannot for the life of them add d6 totals in a REASONABLE amount of time.
As long as they weren't distracted noodling around with something else, I don't consider this a bigger problem at all. They may not be very good players, sure, but I don't play with people because of their competence or decisiveness. I play with them because we enjoy playing together.
I have a lot more tolerance for someone engaged in the process but slow to perform than I have for someone disengaged even if they make quick decisions.People who cannot stop talking about last night's game...I wear glasses and play Pen and Paper RPG's I care nothing for football.
I can assure you that wearing glasses and playing pen and paper RPGs has no bearing on whether or not someone cares about football. You've provided a description of most of the gamers at my table, yet we're also keen on football. But, I think the point about excessive non-game chatter is a well placed one.
My worry will be players forgetting group buffs.
This is another result of not paying attention. If he were to die I would ask did you add ______, with a smile on my face. I have had players that can be on a computer and still play the game. Others can't. Barring extreme situations those that can't need to prioritize.
Wouldn't it be more distracting to say "hey group, stop what you are doing because I am about to text the wife that I will be home at 9 and wanted you to know before commencing the 10 second text"?How do you feel, If you are the Gm, and you are running a game, and during one of your descriptions, you see one of your players texting at the gaming table?
How about if you are a player, and you see another player texting at the table?
Is it rude to do this?
Yes, it is rude, as far as we're concerned. No, none of us consider it to be acceptable behavior for our particular group.
If someone says they have to let their wife know about when they're coming home, they tell everyone first before doing so. Common courtesy. Random "communicating" won't be happening, though.
Turns out... no.
Don't you worry yourself, random internet person - we know what works for our group.
My worry will be players forgetting group buffs.This is another result of not paying attention. If he were to die I would ask did you add ______, with a smile on my face. I have had players that can be on a computer and still play the game. Others can't. Barring extreme situations those that can't need to prioritize.
No one ever remembers group buffs. There is never any good way to remember them. I only remember my inherent buffs because I have a spreadsheet that calculates all my combat numbers for me and I have buff drop downs for the common temp buffs so they automatically factor in.
And by no one, I mean no one. Not one person in 3 different groups I played in constituting 15 unique people ever remembers group buffs 100% of the time, or even 75% of the time. Hell, 25% of the time they forget their own buffs (which often is the group buff).
My handy rule of thumb is:
If you'd be uncomfortable doing it during a movie/concert/live performance/book club etc., please don't do it at my table during the game.
Of course, your mileage may vary. There's always the exception that proves the rule.
Even when I'm GMing, I like to keep my phone within arm's reach for the lull times, and I occasionally break this rule, much to my chagrin, sometimes just out of habit. I've considered turning it off but more often than not, there is something out in the real world that demands at least my peripheral attention.
I just think a session (for many players a weekly or monthly, hard-to-plan, hard-to-make-room-for sort of thing) of an RP which is basically collaborative storytelling, warrants a little bit of consideration for the people in attendance who are trying to maintain some immersion or even just keep the game flowing.
I'm reminded of the woman who rear-ended my friend in traffic, while texting.
Woman: "I was NOT texting! But even if I was, I'm an expert at multitasking! Of COURSE I can drive and text, if I wanted to!"
Friend (drily, while looking at his totaled car): "Obviously."
Woman: "Well, how was I supposed to see you stop suddenly? I was TRYING to have a conversation here!"
I'm reminded of the woman who rear-ended my friend in traffic, while texting.
Woman: "I was NOT texting! But even if I was, I'm an expert at multitasking! Of COURSE I can drive and text, if I wanted to!"
Friend (drily, while looking at his totaled car): "Obviously."
Woman: "Well, how was I supposed to see you stop suddenly? I was TRYING to have a conversation here!"
I am reminded of the day I ate fudge.
What? It's exactly the same.
Hell, everyone gets a text or call occasionally while gaming. It's happened to me while DMing, even. The thing is to minimize the disturbance, rather than prolong it.
Everyone in the world is convinced that they are an expert at multitasking. I have found this assertion almost universally not to be true (much like everyone claims they're politically moderate, and claims to be an above-average driver, and thinks they're an expert on climate change).
I am reminded of the day I ate fudge.
What? It's exactly the same.
If eating fudge required enough concentration that it impaired your ability to drive or play a game, I can see that it would be.
If eating fudge required enough concentration that it impaired your ability to drive or play a game, I can see that it would be.
I am reminded of the day I ate fudge.
What? It's exactly the same.
Dude, there is fudge out there that is that good.
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Texting the girlfriend to reassure them that they are NOT starting to look like their mother is not disruptive and serves important long term purposes for the rest of the week when not gaming.
OK, sorry but this one made me laugh. :)
My girlfriend has not ONCE bemoaned the fact that on Sundays (one of her only days off) I'm gone for 8 hours-ish to game.And for THAT, I will happily let her know she isn't looking like her mother.
Or a quick text to let her know I'm thinking of her.
And so very sorry to all the DMs that it bothers, but she looks much better than you do*. :)
Seriously, I've never had a problem with my players quickly texting. Or even having to take an important phone call.
This is a GAME after all. Real life and real life priorities have to come first.
-J
*Maybe. I haven't played with all the women DMs here. In all fairness you may have her beat. :)
If eating fudge required enough concentration that it impaired your ability to drive or play a game, I can see that it would be.
I am reminded of the day I ate fudge.
What? It's exactly the same.
No, I was just sitting at home watching tv, eating fudge.
Completely related to your example in the same way your example is related to this thread.
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Hell, everyone gets a text or call occasionally while gaming. It's happened to me while DMing, even. The thing is to minimize the disturbance, rather than prolong it.
Everyone in the world is convinced that they are an expert at multitasking. I have found this assertion almost universally not to be true (much like everyone claims they're politically moderate, and claims to be an above-average driver, and thinks they're an expert on climate change).
Agreed. It's harder to ban eletronic devices in current games now that the shift has been made for online aids and pdfs. I don't find it too distracting unless there's a player (and boy have there been) that text/read/surf/whatever to the point of distraction. I have had some players that text so much they lose track of what's going on to the point that they slow down the game for everyone.
For someone like that I tend to ban them from multitasking.
That said, I do have a policy that all phones, PCs, or whatever need to be muted UNLESS there's a sound file useful to the game. I find that's more helpful then an outrright ban.
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Texting:
Noisy - whether it's a ringtone or vibrate
The player is often looking at his phone, typing, which even if it doesn't distract him, it distracts ME as a player and as a GM - and the other players.
That said, I'm OK with a text or so; it's understandable. But constantly? I and everyone else at the table get annoyed.
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I get the impression that there are a few people on here (not directed at the person whom I am quoting) who would like to dictate how other people should play.
I think it's more likely that various people (on both sides of the debate) are:
a) having different experiences with the ease/difficulty regarding the integration/distraction of technology at the game table
b) attempting to generalize and layer those experiences on top of someone elses experiences
c) using that layered generalization as the bases for their response instead of actually listening to what these other people have to say.
This is not meant to imply fault or nefarious intent, generalization *usually* being beneficial.
Wait a sec -
The texting player(s) are not responsible for your distraction. If they are *quietly* typing or reading on their phone, they aren't distracting you. You are distracted.
I notice you put the *quietly* qualifier there. Suppose he was noisily texting? Would my distraction still be my responsibility? How about if he were braying like a foghorn? Whose responsibility would it be? Does assigning responsibility depend on being quiet? Suppose the player across the table were quietly flashing her breasts at me? Am I still entirely responsible for my distraction or does she share some culpability? Suppose it were a guy flashing his man-boobs at me?
I think there's a whole lot of gray area here. Wouldn't it be a simpler solution for the distracting texter to actually, you know, pay attention to the game or step away from the table to do his texting?
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Question: If four out of five people at the table are distracted from game by what the 5th is doing, is it the responsibility of the four that are distracted to ignore the 5th, or the responsibility of the 5th to be considerate of his fellow players and edit his behavior?
I hypothesize that the division line responses to this question will fall along the same lines as the pro/anti texting stand.
Prove me wrong?
This brings up a related point.
I ask for things to be repeated at virtually every table at which I play. From the spelling of an NPC's name to be remembered while correlating it with a faction mission, to ceiling height, to another run through of the description of the bad guy's clothing and equipment, I am usually asking for clarification if not outright repetition.
It doesn't mean I am not paying attention. It means box text is boring and cluttered, rooms are noisy, and GMs talking behind screens can't be heard very well even if they do enunciate - which many do not. Or I am trying to do two things at once -- like prepare combat actions while listening to additional descriptions/actions during the encounter.
I think at cons the room being noisy is the cause of much of the distractions mentioned, including texting. It is too easy to tune out all noise vs. filter it. Even at game days, I have experienced noise fatigue. I have texted people at the same table so as not to add to the noise, or across the room so as not to disrupt two games in progress.
I get the impression that there are a few people on here (not directed at the person whom I am quoting) who would like to dictate how other people should play.
Well, if other players take their time and are slower at adding up damage dice than you are, tough. If they don't spend 14 hours preparing their PC and memorizing a complex attack scenario, modifiable to every known variable, I am sorry it bothers you. They might be looking stuff up at the table and might forget things from time to time. It doesn't mean their intent is to ruin your fun.
Some people play the game as a diversion from very busy schedules and don't have any desire to pore over things in books and memorize bonuses. They want to show up for a few hours and roleplay, not really caring if the bless spell stacks with prayer.
Perhaps the problem is with the person who gets their undies in a wad when people don't all behave the same way.
I would think the solution would...
I guess I was a little heavy handed... My point was that distractions and delays are going to happen in any game. In my opinion I just don't feel a text now and again is going to ruin the game.
People have very different gaming atmospheres, ours is a very relaxed 8 hour session. Heck, one of our players works on call every other week and frequently has to take off for an hour here and there.
I prefer texts to the olden days when girlfriends would call the house ask to speak to their boyfriends and then chew them out for spending too much time playing.
..and my undies are getting in a wad because I am getting fat. (Thank you 8 hour gaming sessions)
I notice you put the *quietly* qualifier there. Suppose he was noisily texting?Wait a sec -
The texting player(s) are not responsible for your distraction. If they are *quietly* typing or reading on their phone, they aren't distracting you. You are distracted.
How does one noisily text?
If you are distracted by what other people are doing, especially if that is simply texting, then you are the one with the problem.
Maybe the rest of the players should practice focusing on the game instead of what other players are doing.
What if writing on my character sheet is distracting? Or looking up what I am going to be doing in the rulebook? Should I stop that?
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Assuming they don't have the audible keyboard on their phone set to 50 dB while texting (ergo, it is not noisy), if the other 4 are distracted by watching the texter, then they should be paying more attention to the game.
Question: If four out of five people at the table are distracted from game by what the 5th is doing, is it the responsibility of the four that are distracted to ignore the 5th, or the responsibility of the 5th to be considerate of his fellow players and edit his behavior?
I hypothesize that the division line responses to this question will fall along the same lines as the pro/anti texting stand.
Prove me wrong?
I may add a secondary hypothesis as well regarding a correlation of the responses vs. the posters capacity to focus. I'm betting the ones who have the most problem with texting are those who find it hard to focus, and those who don't see the problem have an easier time of tuning out distraction.
Do any of the anti-texters here have hyper-sensitive hearing or ADHD?
Oh yeah. This thread looks comfy right here.
I don't text at all in the game - I have no one TO text or get texts from. I am taking a general stance against absurd accusations.
And I don't give a crap if they don't like it. If THEY are distracted by MY texting, then the problem is THEIRS. If the game isn't interesting enough or they can't focus enough for them to stay out of MY business, then the problem is NOT on my end.I played games (Torchlight, Dungeons of Dredmore, Defense Grid) in between my turns on my Monday game because a half hour would occur between them, during combat - that was with 5 players and the GM.
I am usually surfing the internet during my other games, but a quarter to half of that is rules cross-referencing for other players and myself.
Ah - I see. Y'know I used to game with a guy who did just that.
Used to.
Assuming they don't have the audible keyboard on their phone set to 50 dB while texting (ergo, it is not noisy), if the other 4 are distracted by watching the texter, then they should be paying more attention to the game.
Question: If four out of five people at the table are distracted from game by what the 5th is doing, is it the responsibility of the four that are distracted to ignore the 5th, or the responsibility of the 5th to be considerate of his fellow players and edit his behavior?
I hypothesize that the division line responses to this question will fall along the same lines as the pro/anti texting stand.
Prove me wrong?
I may add a secondary hypothesis as well regarding a correlation of the responses vs. the posters capacity to focus. I'm betting the ones who have the most problem with texting are those who find it hard to focus, and those who don't see the problem have an easier time of tuning out distraction.
Do any of the anti-texters here have hyper-sensitive hearing or ADHD?
ADD.
Note from my previous post that I am not fully anti-texting; I think it should be used in reasonable circumstances. But in general if there's a lot of distracting behavior going on I will not be able to run the game very well.
But my major issue is less to do with my personal challenges in focusing and more about courtesy and engaging in the game. Again, I think it's fine if someone's got an important message or even taking a few minutes out of a long session to check on family or whatever. But if someone is just sitting there nonstop texting (or doing any other behavior that is--NOTE this qualifier--constantly and consistently dividing their attention), then that tells me they are not engaged in the game and they do not have respect for the time their GM has put into preparation, and are more interested in interacting with people who are not there than with the players present.
I can understand some people doing stuff like texting because they themselves have focus and distraction issues, but people who want to play will find a way to keep themselves occupied that still keeps them also engaged with the game. As an ADD *player*, if my character is not active, I will check the math on my character sheet, or double check rules for a spell, or very quietly discuss tactics with a fellow player who is not in a scene as long as it's not bothering the GM--or even sit and draw the other player's characters. But whatever I'm doing, it pertains to the game going on, and makes me loop my focus back around to the campaign itself. I wouldn't do anything that takes my mind away from the present moment of the game (like emailing a friend about plans for the amusement park or whatever)--because I know full well that would not only be rude to my GM and fellow players (it's basically telling them, "I'm here, but I'm not interested in actually being here"), but it would also undermine my own ability to participate effectively.
For me, as a DM, it greatly depends on the player. I have one player in my Sunday game whose phone is attached to her hand. I think she texts in her sleep. However, she stays very aware of the game and what's going on. So, I don't give her any grief over it. It doesn't slow the game down, and doesn't detract from her involvement in the game.
On the other hand, I was in a game about a year ago in the World's Largest Dungeon, which is a meat grinder as-is, and we had a player who could not stop texting, and had absolutely no idea of what was going on. In this particular campaign, there's very little story, and lots and lots of lethal traps around every corner. We had to constantly speak up when it was her turn and repeat ourselves to get her attention, so when she finally recognized it was her turn, she'd need the entire situation explained again. Sometimes, this was multiple times in the same encounter. THAT is irritating.
So it really boils down to the individual. If you can handle the multiple-attention span necessary to text and stay in the game, then my hats off to you. But often I find this is the exception, and not the rule.