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When there is faction mission friction, should the GM intervene out-of-game or should the GM provide adequate information to figure out the difference and just let the PCs argue it out?
An example of GM intervention might be to:
A) Remind the players that you should never get conflicting faction missions.
B) Clarifying one of the faction missions to help a player who misunderstands.
For example, two factions want the same item (for their faction mission) and one faction is mistaken (which might not be their fault since the description was vague).
What do experienced GMs find works best? Let the players argue and work it out themselves (even though it could devolve into anger and wanting PVP)? Or resolve it by the GM providing out-of-game explanations (to keep the peace)? Or some other solution?
Stories and experience are welcome.
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When there is faction mission friction, should the GM intervene out-of-game or should the GM provide adequate information to figure out the difference and just let the PCs argue it out?
An example of GM intervention might be to:
A) Remind the players that you should never get conflicting faction missions.B) Clarifying one of the faction missions to help a player who misunderstands.
For example, two factions want the same item (for their faction mission) and one faction is mistaken (which might not be their fault since the description was vague).
What do experienced GMs find works best? Let the players argue and work it out themselves (even though it could devolve into anger and wanting PVP)? Or resolve it by the GM providing out-of-game explanations (to keep the peace)? Or some other solution?
Stories and experience are welcome.
I've only had the expierience once in 3 adventures, and have yet to GM a PFS scenario. However, I do like to think that should it come up when I do GM one, I'd let the PCs try to talk it out amongst themselves up to a point, AFTER I've publicly told him and everyone else at the table that no, he does not need the item for his faction quest.
If the player holding another faction's one-of-a-kind quest item is being stubborn, I believe the GM has to step in. The players getting screwed over cannot take action to take/steal the item. If the GM does not bring the problem PC to heel, the other PCs are going to PvP anyway, whether the GM catches it or not.
There are infinite ways to passively-aggressively punish that stubborn PC. I may not be allowed to PvP him, but neither do I have to heal him. Neither do I have to help set him up with flanks. I don't have to give him helpful spells. I can encourage him to stick his neck out into danger then 'forget' to back him up.
If the GM doesn't nip that in the bud, it's gonna get out of control, with or without no-PvP rules.
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Or how about this example from the Frostfur thread.
The Cheliax player insisted that his character believed the eyes were also part of what he required for his faction quest. I, the Taldor player, knew this was hogwash and appealed to the GM, who was running an adventure for the first time as a PFS member. Unfortunately he seemed unsure what to do. He pointedly told the Player that the eyes are not part of his Cheliax quest, but the player stuck to the position that his charater doesn't know, and he's gonna hang on to the Taldor quest item just to make sure he doesn't blow his own mission. And the GM let that stand.
Basically, the GM tells player #1 that the item is not part of his faction mission. Said player says he wants to keep the item because his character doesn't know and he doesn't want to respond to metagame knowledge. Player #2, who needs the item, wants to beat player #1 to a bloody pulp.
My first reaction as GM would be to force player #1 to give the item to player #2, saying his action is interferring with player #2s business, and he could be kicked from the Pathfinder society because of this. But it feels wrong and I hate forcing players to do things out of game.
I did it once, in a scenario, I had to stop a PC from killing an NPC because it directly interfered with another player's faction mission. The player knew and wanted to do it anyway.
Is it fair game to allow them to do it, knowing they'll be kicked out of the Pathfinder society and will never be able to play that character again?
Suggestions?
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Backing a player into a corner where PVP is the only option falls under the "Bullying other players" (or DBAD) rule.
I would inform Player #1 of this, then encourage #2 to roleplay a reason for the other character to give it to him. If Player #2 came up with something even marginally reasonable (ie Not "that's my faction item!") and Player #1 still refused, I would step in.
EDIT: To be fair, it is entirely possible for a PC to pick up another Faction's mission as part of roleplaying. Or even accidentally ruin it. The key is to deal with it once the player is aware he is messing with the other characters.
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Backing a player into a corner where PVP is the only option falls under the "Bullying other players" (or DBAD) rule.
I would inform Player #1 of this, then encourage #2 to roleplay a reason for the other character to give it to him. If Player #2 came up with something even marginally reasonable (ie Not "that's my faction item!") and Player #1 still refused, I would step in.
EDIT: To be fair, it is entirely possible for a PC to pick up another Faction's mission as part of roleplaying. Or even accidentally ruin it. The key is to deal with it once the player is aware he is messing with the other characters.
I agree.
And to add to this:
If the player knows he's screwing with the other player's resources or rewards and trying to use "roleplay" as his excuse, he's just being a jerk.
This is expressly not allowed in PFS.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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If the player knows he's screwing with the other player's resources or rewards and trying to use "roleplay" as his excuse, he's just being a jerk.
Seconded. If the person was really interested in "roleplaying", he'd know that there's more than one way to play his character and find something to say/do that was character-appropriate AND player-cooperative. Failure to employ helpful creativity in roleplaying shows that the player in question just doesn't want to be told what to do and uses "role play" as a mask to hide his childishness.
Or he's just not very creative and could perhaps be helped along a bit. ;)
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I disagree. It's much more fun to watch them stumble about like children.
-Gabrielle d'Apcher
Now, m'lady. We ARE intended to cooperate with all of them. I have even performed an impromptu speech for a number of tongue-tied Andorans about "The Evils of Slavery."
Needless to say, they owe me one favour. And when the time comes that I need a man hogtied and executed via greatsword on a moment's notice, I believe the debt will be paid in full (with gratuitous interest. I have seen their handiwork.)
I do believe the Andoran woman with greatsword-in-question thanked me one when we visited their cleric's "Church." It was probably merely because the man upon whom I enacted the Prince's merciful-yet-swift vengeance was talking lies about Oppara, and she has come appreciate it and its many wonders.
Yes, that's clearly it. What else could it be?
~Baronet Hernando Ruiz, Taldan Knight of the Shield
When there is faction mission friction, should the GM intervene out-of-game or should the GM provide adequate information to figure out the difference and just let the PCs argue it out?
Is it possible that players may accidentally pick items up that someone else needs? Yes. When they realize it, should both players OOC cooperate to get the person the item they need? Yes, with a qualifier. They shouldn't be forced to do so in a way that doesn't make sense. This is actually a perfect RP opportunity. The GM should probably step in, but only enough to help the players work things out. Ultimately, two mature players should be able to come up with some interesting RP reasons why the exchange might happen.
If not, the person is being a jerk. This is the reason the rules are there in the first place, to protect the integrity of the table. I don't suffer idiots, and neither should my players. I would rather put my foot down momentarily and break the 4th wall than keep it intact and ruin the dynamic of the group.