I've been reading Unearthed Arcana and I'm interested in using spell points in Pathfinder for every spell-casting class. What would be the best way of accomplishing this goal?
I think adapting the psionics rules by Dreamscarred press to arcane/divine spells would be a good start.
Quick and dirty I would grant more spell points to spontaneous casters but allow prepared casters to switch up their spells every day should they so choose. So a wizard might have memorized 2 1st level spells but he has 3 spell points. So if he prepared grease and mage armor, and each spell costed 1 spell point, he could cast grease three times or mage armor three times or grease and mage armor each once and then grease again, etc. Assign spell point values to metamagic feats and require prepared casters to memorize their spell with the metamagic feat, while the spontaneous ones can just choose what they're doing. So very similar, but with a bit more versatility.
That's very basic. Like epic basic.
You would also have to take into account scaling powers. What I mean by that is are you going to allow a 1st level sorcerer or wizard cast magic missile for 1d4+1 points of damage for 1 spell point and a 9th level wizard do 5d4+5 points of damage for the same cost? Because spell points are usually a static pool that you can cast all your spells with, you have to address this. Unless you had separate spell points for each level, in which case why bother? I believe psionics had a 2 point difference per spell level, so a 1st level spell would cost 1 point, a 2nd level spell would cost 3, a 3rd would cost 5... etc.
Each spell would have to be reworked into the system and you would have to decide if you were going to keep the same caps in place, or make it unlimited (like psionics).
(Quick conversion of Magic Missile)
Magic Missile
School evocation [force]; Level magus 1, sorcerer/wizard 1
Spell Point Cost 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets up to five creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
A missile of magical energy darts forth from your fingertip and strikes its target, dealing 1d4+1 points of force damage.
The missile strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee combat, so long as it has less than total cover or total concealment. Specific parts of a creature can't be singled out. Objects are not damaged by the spell.
Augment: For every two spell points you augment this spell with, you gain an additional missile to a maximum of five missiles. If you shoot multiple missiles, you can have them strike a single creature or several creatures. A single missile can strike only one creature. You must designate targets before you check for spell resistance or roll damage.
Okay, adapting directly from UA . . .
Cantrips/orisons already didn't need spell points, so you don't need to account for them in a PF adaptation.
The Cleric/Druid/Wizard and Sorcerer spell point progressions work as written, since they kept the same number of spells/day. Oracles match the Sorcerer spell and thus spell point progression, Witches match the Wizard spell and thus the Cleric/Druid/Wizard spell point progression.
PF Bards are better casters than in 3.5, and the Inquisitor/Magus/Summoner use the same progression as the bard, so you need one new, better spell point table for these four classes.
PF paladins and rangers are better casters than in 3.5 too, and also need one new, better spell point table for these two.
Now, back in UA, the procedure used to calculate spell points for those two groups of classes was pretty simple. To quote a post by ChrisWaller back on the old WotC forums:
For bards (and possibly other classes that can cast up to 6th level spells) use the following procedure:
1) Multiply the character's 1st level spells per day by 1.
2) Multiply the character's 2nd level spells per day by 3 (counting 0 spells per day as 1 spell per day).
3) Multiply the character's 3rd level spells per day by 5 (counting 0 spells per day as 1 spell per day).
4) Multiply the character's 4th level spells per day by 7 (counting 0 spells per day as 1 spell per day).
5) Multiply the character's 5th level spells per day by 9 (counting 0 spells per day as 1 spell per day).
6) Multiply the character's 6th level spells per day by 11 (counting 0 spells per day as 1 spell per day).
7) add these totals together.
So the Bard/Inquisitor/Magus/Summoner point table would be (if I've done my math right):
1st — 1
2nd — 2
3rd — 3
4th — 6
5th — 10
6th — 13
7th — 18
8th — 26
9th — 32
10th — 39
11th — 51
12th — 61
13th — 70
14th — 86
15th — 100
16th — 111
17th — 131
18th — 149
19th — 169
20th — 180
To calculate the spell points for minor spell casters such as paladins and rangers, use the following procedure:
1) Multiply the character's 1st level spells per day by 1.
2) Multiply the character's 2nd level spells per day by 3.
3) Multiply the character's 3rd level spells per day by 5.
4) Multiply the character's 4th level spells per day by 7.
5) Add these totals together.
And the Paladin/Ranger point table would be (assuming my math's right):
1st — 0
2nd — 0
3rd — 0
4th — 0
5th — 1
6th — 1
7th — 1
8th — 4
9th — 5
10th — 5
11th — 10
12th — 13
13th — 14
14th — 21
15th — 26
16th — 29
17th — 30
18th — 37
19th — 42
20th — 52
HypertextD20, look under the variant rules in the center column. Read carefully, as they have solved problems I never even considered.
My major change was in the cost in spell points changing from 2(spell level)-1 to 2(spell level)+1 and all 0 levels costing 1. Also, Clerics gain Domain spells as their 'go to's, rather than the cure/inflict choice, and Specialists use (spell level)+1 for casting.
Spell points makes spontaneous casters obsolete unless you change the system drastically.
Spell points makes spontaneous casters obsolete unless you change the system drastically.
Not as they stand in Unearthed Arcana. Spontaneous casters still have the advantage of not memorizing and selecting spells.
Maybe I misread it. I thought spell points let prepared casters prepare their 'spells known' for the day and act like a spontaneous caster from then on.
Maybe I misread it. I thought spell points let prepared casters prepare their 'spells known' for the day and act like a spontaneous caster from then on.
Not at all, although it does give prepared casters some new flexibility. Wizards and the other prepared casters have to select spells to prepare just as before according to the spell slots, however, as I understand it, they can use their daily spell points in any way so long as the cast the spell they selected for the day. So a 8th level wizard who prepares fireball along with two other 3rd level spells, can blow all his spell points on fireball, BUT if he does not prepare fireball he cannot cast the spell.
How is that not a spontaneous caster with a spells known list that can be changed daily?
How is that not a spontaneous caster with a spells known list that can be changed daily?
Well, it could be argued that the limited name of the spell selected every day would differentiate the two types of casters.
Perhaps I should change that for my campaign, which was my original intention? How would be the best way to accomplished that? Maybe something like the caster can only use a 3rd level spell a number of times equivalent to the number of 3rd level spell slots allotted?
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I thought prepared casters had to allot points to spells at the start of the day, while spontaneous could spend them on the fly. Maybe I misremember.
Edit: Yep, I misremember. That's pretty horrible. Wizards are never more than 20 points behind the sorcerer in total power points, and for that small price they get to change their spontaneous spell list every day.
Spell points just makes spontaneous classes even worse.
Well, it could be argued that the limited name of the spell selected every day would differentiate the two types of casters.
I don't understand what this means.
Here's how it works as far as I know:
A wizard has a couple of 3rd level spell slots. He looks through his spellbook and decides to prepare fly and fireball. During the day, he can spend spell points to cast either of them as needed, casting fly multiple times or fireball multiple times or some of each. The next day, he can prepare a different set of spells to cast.
A sorcerer has a 3rd level spell known, say, fireball. She can cast it as long as she has spell points to pay for it. The next day, she still has the same spell.
Here's the relevant text:
Preparing Spells
With this variant, spellcasters still prepare spells as normal (assuming they normally prepare spells). In effect, casters who prepare spells are setting their list of “spells known” for the day. They need not prepare multiple copies of the same spell, since they can cast any combination of their prepared spells each day (up to the limit of their spell points).
For example, Boredflak the 4th-level wizard has an Intelligence score of 16. When using the spell point system, he would prepare four 0-level spells, four 1st-level spells (three plus his bonus spell for high Int), and three 2nd-level spells (two plus his bonus spell for high Int). These spells make up his entire list of spells that he can cast during the day, though he can cast any combination of them, as long as he has sufficient spell points.
The only thing spontaneous casters get is slightly more spell points. About 5% more.
At 20th level, sorcerers have 17 points more than a wizard. One 9th level spell's worth.
I am sad.
It's even worse if you count bonus spell points for high ability score.
20th Wizard with 32 int: 368 spell points
20th Sorcerer with 32 cha: 385 spell points
Also:
One might think a spell point system would encourage blasting, but this one kills evocation hard. Dice-based damage spells cost additional points to use at their full strength, while the classic kill spells such as flesh to stone are cheap at full strength.
Umbral Reaver, I appreciate the information into this design flaw, that is why I created this thread to find and fix any thing that would make the spell point system to weak for use in a game. Now that we have identified this problem, how can we solve it?
One simple option is to make wizards with spell points work like wizards with spell slots.
When you prepare spells, you may prepare any combination of spells so long as the total power points of the spells does not exceed your maximum.
Once spells are prepared, they are cast normally. Once cast, they are no longer available.
I thought prepared casters had to allot points to spells at the start of the day, while spontaneous could spend them on the fly. Maybe I misremember.
Edit: Yep, I misremember. That's pretty horrible. Wizards are never more than 20 points behind the sorcerer in total power points, and for that small price they get to change their spontaneous spell list every day.
Spell points just makes spontaneous classes even worse.
What are you guys talking about?!? The Sorcerer was only invented because they were keeping 'Vancian' spellcasting in 3rd Edition. It was a brilliant innovation for those who were sick of 'memorizing', and wanted to cast fireball as much as they liked.
If you use spell points and Wizards become 'spontaneous', then you don't need Sorcerers anymore.
However, even I am attached to the fluff of Sorcerers now. I would beef them up in a spell point system. Or change them entirely. Maybe Sorcerers are the ones who use Words of Power using spell points to cast Words on the fly, making them truly 'spontaneous' casters.
One simple option is to make wizards with spell points work like wizards with spell slots.
When you prepare spells, you may prepare any combination of spells so long as the total power points of the spells does not exceed your maximum.
Once spells are prepared, they are cast normally. Once cast, they are no longer available.
That sounds exactly like NOT using spell points. Why would you do the book keeping, and what would be the advantage?
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Being able to prepare nothing but your highest level spells.
What are you guys talking about?!? The Sorcerer was only invented because they were keeping 'Vancian' spellcasting in 3rd Edition. It was a brilliant innovation for those who were sick of 'memorizing', and wanted to cast fireball as much as they liked.If you use spell points and Wizards become 'spontaneous', then you don't need Sorcerers anymore.
However, even I am attached to the fluff of Sorcerers now. I would beef them up in a spell point system. Or change them entirely. Maybe Sorcerers are the ones who use Words of Power using spell points to cast Words on the fly, making them truly 'spontaneous' casters.
Yes, giving the sorcerer FAR more points than the wizard would make them attractive. As it is now, they only have the advantage of having access to MAYBE a single extra spell prepared.
The sorcerer has been a failure the entire time, only useful because it's easy for people who 'just want to cast fireball as much as they like'. And the wizard is even better at that too, because you can just fill every slot with fireball if you want.
I know it's not quite what you are looking for but in the campaign I am currently running it's only the spontaneous casters who use the spell point system and that works really well. That way you have allot more diversity between prepared and spontaneous casters.
If you also use the rule that when a spontaneous caster uses over half their available spell points they become fatigued and then, when they have used over 3/4 of their spell points, they become exhausted. It balances out the vastly increased flexibility.
That sounds exactly like NOT using spell points. Why would you do the book keeping, and what would be the advantage?
As TOZ pointed out it frees you from the arbitrary spell slot system and allows you to memorize any spells within your limit of points. You could skip memorizing your highest (or lowest) spell levels for example and choose other spells as you see fit. A marginal increase in flexibility. Leaves the Sorceror to make his choices on the fly / spontaneous.
We used glass bead tokens in the last spell point game, red for arcane, blue, etc.