How would you balance a Lycanthrope?

[Derek Vande Brake]

I am probably going to run the Carrion Crown AP soon, and one of my players is interested in playing a natural born werewolf. I already have a thread up in the AP forum for possible story conflicts, but I also have game balance concerns.

The lycanthrope template is only +1 CR, but it seems quite powerful for a player. Nonetheless, it is thematic for Ustalav with the right background, and I don't like saying no when a player has a good background to support a choice. It also seems like, with a little work, it COULD be balanced with a level 1 party.

For aasimars and tieflings, I ususally just drop one of their traits. (Goblins and kobolds get an extra trait.) Do you think the Lycanthrope Template would be worth both traits, and the level 1 feat? I am leaning toward that not even being enough!

Just for ease of people assisting, here is what he'd gain:

Shapechanger subtype
Hybrid and animal forms (shifting is a move action)
AC +2 in hybrid/animal form
DR 10/silver in hybrid/animal form
+20 ft. movement in animal form (+30 if playing a small race)
Bite attack in hybrid/animal form (but see Curse of Lycanthropy)
Low-Light Vision
Scent
Curse of Lycanthropy (This would actually be a drawback, imho, for a player, and mitigates the advantage of the bite attack somewhat)
Ability to communicate with wolves and improve their attitude
+2 Wis, –2 Cha in all forms; +2 Str, +2 Con in hybrid/animal forms
In hybrid/animal form, if animal base stats are higher, he gains those.

[Atarlost]

My instincts are that the DR and the opportunity to dump physical stats and have the downsides vanish in hybrid form are the problems. You might still want to take away a trait or two, but with them cut back they're more in line with other races. I'd also impose a minimum charisma since otherwise the stat penalty is meaningless for the classes that would most benefit from lycanthropy.

Derek Vande Brake wrote:

Shapechanger subtype

Hybrid and animal forms (shifting is a move action)
AC +2 in hybrid/animal form
DR 10/silver in hybrid/animal form
reduce to 2/level
+20 ft. movement in animal form (+30 if playing a small race)
Bite attack in hybrid/animal form (but see Curse of Lycanthropy)
Low-Light Vision
Scent
Curse of Lycanthropy (This would actually be a drawback, imho, for a player, and mitigates the advantage of the bite attack somewhat)
Ability to communicate with wolves and improve their attitude
+2 Wis, –2 Cha in all forms; +2 Str, +2 Con in hybrid/animal forms
get rid of the next clause or limit it to full animal form only
In hybrid/animal form, if animal base stats are higher, he gains those.

[Derek Vande Brake]

I appreciate the input, but the player has decided not to play a werewolf after all based on some of the RP restrictions and problems it created. So if someone wants to turn this into an intellectual exercise, feel free, but I no longer need it for my game.

[LazarX]

If I was going to allow it I'd have simply given up on the notion of balance. In a mature gaming group balance is a thing to shoot for, but not a requirement.

[Cartigan]

I am pretty sure you add the HD of the base creature to any created Lycanthrope.

[Derek Vande Brake]

Cartigan wrote:

I am pretty sure you add the HD of the base creature to any created Lycanthrope.

That's a bit of versionitis - you don't do so in Pathfinder.

[Cartigan]

Derek Vande Brake wrote:

Cartigan wrote:

I am pretty sure you add the HD of the base creature to any created Lycanthrope.

That's a bit of versionitis - you don't do so in Pathfinder.

Then, since Pathfinder is anti-LA, Lycanthropes are the best things EVER. Forget your silly Aasimar or Tiefling, I'm going to be a Weretiger.

[Derek Vande Brake]

LazarX wrote:

If I was going to allow it I'd have simply given up on the notion of balance. In a mature gaming group balance is a thing to shoot for, but not a requirement.

I don't believe I ever said my gaming group was mature! :P Semi-mature at best, with two or three spotlight hogs. I'm probably the most mature player in the group.

[LazarX]

Derek Vande Brake wrote:

LazarX wrote:

If I was going to allow it I'd have simply given up on the notion of balance. In a mature gaming group balance is a thing to shoot for, but not a requirement.

I don't believe I ever said my gaming group was mature! :P Semi-mature at best, with two or three spotlight hogs. I'm probably the most mature player in the group.

Then give it a pass altogether. Doing freaky stuff with immature players only invites drama.

[Davick]

LazarX wrote:

Derek Vande Brake wrote:

LazarX wrote:

If I was going to allow it I'd have simply given up on the notion of balance. In a mature gaming group balance is a thing to shoot for, but not a requirement.

I don't believe I ever said my gaming group was mature! :P Semi-mature at best, with two or three spotlight hogs. I'm probably the most mature player in the group.

Then give it a pass altogether. Doing freaky stuff with immature players only invites drama.

just use the eberron shifter.