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The guide is clear on what's legal for familiars and companions. I don't see any mention as to what shapes are legal. Is any animal/magical beast released in a paizo-made pathfinder system product for beast shape III, etc? Only ones on the legal sources list.
I'm particularly interested in the allosaurus from Bestiary II. I know you've not evaluated that source for familiars and companions, but nowhere in the resource list are legal shapes mentioned, so I'm not sure if their legality derives from the list.
Follow-up, even if an unlisted source is illegal, is a source containing creatures of the required type legal for polymorphing into creatures of that type?
Basically, how far beyond Bestiary I can we go?
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I'm not 100% sure, but I would say that shapes from Bestiary 2 are not yet legal, as the book is not on the Additional Resources page.
That was what I first thought, until I realized the guide makes no mention of polymorph shapes, even in its Bestiary I entry.
And even if II is still currently out, how would you treat the resources that are listed?
In my mind, the polymorph subschool in 3.pf is less prone to abuse, so I'm inclined to be more inclusive. All you get from the different forms are a different combination of abilities and a different sets of attacks and damage. Stats are flat, as is AC, etc.
Also, I'd find it odd if someone could not transform into a creature as they fought it, and as I recall some Bestiary II and other sources have been appearing in modules (though I don't have specifics on those).
Anyone else have thoughts?
Clearly only Mark and Hyrum can give the correct answer, but rampant speculation is always a good time.
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Anyone else have thoughts?
Clearly only Mark and Hyrum can give the correct answer, but rampant speculation is always a good time.
I've been playing a shapeshifting Sorcerer for roughly a year and a half.
It is my perspective that because the spell is legal anything from an official Pathfinder product would be legal. This includes Bestiary 2. (I limit my choices only to Bestiary and Bestiary 2)
It is the restrictions on the spell that must be followed, and sets the balance of the spell. (Read the Polymorph sub-school carefully though, the limitations are quite severe.)
Maybe this discussion will prompt a restriction or even a specific list. My Sorcerer is close to retirement though, and I can say I've had a lot of fun with it. (Be sure to get a Holy Amulet of Mighty fists when you start to get frustrated w/ DR.)
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Anyone else have thoughts?
Clearly only Mark and Hyrum can give the correct answer, but rampant speculation is always a good time.
I've been playing a shapeshifting Sorcerer for roughly a year and a half.
It is my perspective that because the spell is legal anything from an official Pathfinder product would be legal. This includes Bestiary 2. (I limit my choices only to Bestiary and Bestiary 2)
It is the restrictions on the spell that must be followed, and sets the balance of the spell. (Read the Polymorph sub-school carefully though, the limitations are quite severe.)
Maybe this discussion will prompt a restriction or even a specific list. My Sorcerer is close to retirement though, and I can say I've had a lot of fun with it. (Be sure to get a Holy Amulet of Mighty fists when you start to get frustrated w/ DR.)
Yeah, I agree with you.
Further, looking at the list of legal sources, they don't show any evaluation with regards to creatures therein, just feats, spells, traits, and items, so any AP or sourcebook without feats, traits, spells, or equipment is just ignored. Looks like the legal sources just aren't set to restrict what someone using one of these spells or abilities has access to.
I know if I was GMing, I'd have no problem with someone turning into anything that's allowed by a given spell, regardless of book. As you said, the spell is now the limitation. A far cry from the problems that once were caused by the spell/ability.
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This seems to support my view:
Below is a specific list of Paizo Publishing products and the equipment, traits, deities, spells, feats, and classes contained within that are legal for play in Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
Note that shapes and monsters are not even mentioned.
But this seems to support the good Venture Captain's statement:
If a product does not appear on this list, then it is not considered legal for play.
Of course, no monsters appear on the list at all except familiars and companions. If the list truly limits out all other monster-containing resources not found therein, the only thing you can change into are core races, legal familiars, and legal animal companions.