A question of Darkness and Invisibility


GM Discussion

Silver Crusade 5/5

I just have a quick question. Why do the writers stick to opponents who us tactics like Darkness and invisibility?

It has gotten to the point where I can almost count on either of these two tactics being used somewhere in a pathfinder scenario.

what are your thoughts?

Thank you

5/5

Q: Why do the writers stick to opponents who use tactics like darkness and invisibility?

A: Because they're effective.

2/5 *

My thought is, as a player, that opponents who become invisible are more fun than opponents who use darkness.

Invisibility signifies that the creature is tricky, and forces the parties that can't deal with it to wait, holding their breath, for a round or two until they can try to pinpoint the enemy. The invisible enemy is preparing, and something nasty will undoubtedly occur, and soon. I feel it builds suspense.

Darkness is an overwhelming environmental effect that, if you aren't completely prepared for it, makes the fight much more complicated and much less fun; virutally everything you might want to try (even, say, moving a few paces) is now covered by a different set of rules. I think darkness and underwater fighting are sort of similar in that regard; the difference is that PCs generally go underwater *intentionally*, which allows for some preparation and environmental mitigation, while darkness can often be suddenly thrust on you. Darkness in combat seems like saying "okay, the room instantly fills with water, and we're now using the underwater rules! Break out those rulebooks! Don't have FoM or a swim speed? Sucks to be you!" Not so much fun.

I agree with Kyle that the items are both effective. But it is also effective to focus attacks exclusively on one PC (preferably the healer)until the PC is dead, then move on to the other PCs. Effective, but not fun.

Sczarni 4/5

Kyle Baird wrote:

Q: Why do the writers stick to opponents who use tactics like darkness and invisibility?

A: Because they're effective.

Because especially for organized play; where modules are less able to be tailored to fit your party, they are both easiest and most effective routes to even the playing field for every group for an entire subtier. I'm still thinking of taking blindfight one of my next levels - I've been blinded enough times for it to be relivent

Sovereign Court 5/5

A little off track, but has anybody seen a clear concise description of darkness and how to work with it as a GM? I keep thinking that I understand it and then no, someone (either correctly or incorrectly) gives another opinion and I am left confused again.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Darkness and Invisibility is an easy way to ensure a challenge without making your solo BBEG into a TPK machine.

Too often, you'll see solo BBEG's that get one shotted themselves, or just simply can't stand up to the rigors of fighting 4 to 6 characters all by their lonesome for more than 2 rounds.

Throw in some invisibility or darkness, and often times, that BBEG now can last several rounds instead of 2. Maybe even will drop a PC below 0.

Of course the use of invisibility and darkness should be tempered at lower level, as tier 1-2 doesn't often have ways to deal with it effectively.

All this being said, I personally feel the preponderance of invisibility and darkness has become a crutch, or dare I say even lazy. There are hundreds of ways to make an encounter challenging at various tiers, solve the above BBEG dying too quickly or anticlimactically, and not end up with a TPK machine.

The problem is, sometimes our creative minds fail us as writers, and we don't have a choice but to use the crutch. Additionally, sometimes that creativity can lead to more problems than it solves.

As for what Ogre said, I'm not sure it is always so binary, but it certainly can appear that way in some situations. Flying baddies when you have no good ranged attacks can also feel that way.

Dark Archive 3/5 **

Cpt_kirstov wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:

Q: Why do the writers stick to opponents who use tactics like darkness and invisibility?

A: Because they're effective.

Because especially for organized play; where modules are less able to be tailored to fit your party, they are both easiest and most effective routes to even the playing field for every group for an entire subtier. I'm still thinking of taking blindfight one of my next levels - I've been blinded enough times for it to be relivent

Which is the solution in and of itself. As players adjust/adapt to this common combat mechanic, you'll probably see less of it in favor of something else, ad infinitum.

The same issue arose with swarms as part of combats and this is part of why it's heavily advised your character have a means of addressing them, even if it's just a flask or two of acid in their pack.

Pathfinders should be prepared for anything, after all. A certain fiend has made a post with plenty of food for thought on things to prepare for. While I certainly don't expect all of these things from every player, I'd like to hope that people strive towards them.


ElyasRavenwood wrote:

I just have a quick question. Why do the writers stick to opponents who us tactics like Darkness and invisibility?

It has gotten to the point where I can almost count on either of these two tactics being used somewhere in a pathfinder scenario.

what are your thoughts?

Thank you

Writers tend to go in trends. You would see this in LG, though it would be diluted a little based on the regional nature of the campaign.

But year 2 in 3e was the year of darkness and it was present a lot... it tends to slow down combats is the real problem.

-James

Silver Crusade 5/5

Thank you all for your thoughts.

My 11 lvl PC, a mystic theurge, alwasy preps, a Dark vision spell, a detect invisibility spell, and a pair of invisibility purge spells. He almost always uses them

My 4th lvl alchemist, 2nd level rogue has just gotten access to 2nd level extracts. The first two he could get his hands on were dark vision and see invisibility.

My 1st level rogue / 1st level barbarian, i made a 1/2 orc so she could see in the dark.

. I guess the words " crp not again, this critter has darkness or well he had Invisibility. " often crops up in my head

again thanks for your thoughts

2/5 *

I like Darkness and Invisibility, they're iconic to the fantasy experience imo.

But like anything (swarms!), if they're overused it's not that fun or interesting.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Well I suppose all in all it makes my life as a player easier. I won't know what i will be facing, but I can be pretty sure at least one of my opponents in the scenario will either be turning invisible or turning the lights out with a darkness spell.

Which reminds me i have to get a scroll of the spell Wandering Star Motes, from the APG for my character. nice light spell.

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