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First, let me preface that I ran this module cold with no absolutely no knowledge of Part 1. For GM's with an inkling of a clue things might be different.
I also liked this module and had fun running it -- but again my circumstances might be a bit unique. I also don't have a copy of the module in front of me, so I'm just going off of what I recall.
I liked that the way into Whitethrone wasn't pre-determined and that the PCs were given pretty-much free reign to figure out how they wanted to get in. I do think that more could have been made of the time the party spends outside the city, perhaps even giving them an encounter there. The idea that the Iron Guard will immediately recognize the party as Pathfinders seems very forced and unreasonable and much is made of this throughout the module -- I totally ignored this. It would have also been nice to see more details about the caravans coming into the city -- I posited that Whitethrone would be a stopping point for caravans coming from over the Top of the World and gave them appropriate details and flavor. I also decided that the nearby mountains would probably support a mining industry and large carts/sleds would likely be bringing ore into the city from those areas.
The ore carts, loaded with big chunks of rock, were slow moving and not very heavily guarded. They proved ideal for my players and they had a very good time trying to figure out how to get into one without being seen while carrying a 100# chest.
Sadly nothing about the description of Whitethrone made it feel like a unique setting in any way. Running this cold I improvised as best I could but I encourage GM's who know they are going to run this scenario to do some research and make Whitethrone something more than Generic Fantasy City #103.
Again there was a whole lot of detail given over to the Iron Guard and how they would find and combat the party unless extreme methods of stealth and subterfuge were undertaken -- really? It is a "cold" city. Everyone is bundled up in furs and one group of travellers pretty much looks like another who pretty much look like the natives. It seemed contrived so I ignored it.
I don't recall many details about the neighborhood around the Old Brewery -- but again it could have been set in any Generic Fantasy City. The interior of the brewery description seemed to match that of many of the brew pubs I've been in lately -- so it was very familiar. Which is not really what I would be looking for in a fantasy game/setting. I understand that Golarion isn't a medieval setting -- but I think that Irrisen might be closer to medieval than it is a modern brew-pub.
I'm really not sure I liked the (what seems now obligatory for PFS) goblin encounter. It seemed like a throw-away. Are the goblins associated with the Shadow Lodge? Why have both rabid guard dogs AND goblins guarding the upstairs? I'm not sure either are good ideas or make much sense for the setting or scenario. If I had more time to prepare I might have opted to replace these with something more evocative of the setting (like something with some sort of "cold" template).
I liked the traps. They kept the party on their toes without killing them. The DCs for the Shadow Lodge operatives to notice the barrel trap going off seemed a bit high.
The bug pit trap was an interesting touch. I'm not sure I buy a pit filled with dead insect parts in Irrisen...but I let it go and the players had a lot of fun with it. Seriously where does the Blight Druid get all his bugs? It really seemed like this module was set in Irrisen as an afterthought than by design from the start.
The mutant goblin was a lot of fun.
I think the final encounter really could have been a lot of fun for a different party.
My final assessment is that I had fun running this module but it wasn't because it was particularly well written or conceived. Much could have been made of the setting that wasn't, and other than the white dragonette, the encounters seemed pretty generic.
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This is just some advice for getting the PCs into the city without too much bloodshed:
First of all, I heartily agree with Sir Wulf. If you are going to run this scenario, read Cities of Golarion. It’s just an overview but still a wealth of information. The PCs should get an earful of this information from the merchants and diplomats they travel to Irrisen with. The merchants who have made the trip before will explain to the PCs that all foreigners have to get a visa in order to be in the city. Without a visa a person may be killed on a whim by any random inhabitant of Whitethrone. Subsequently the caravan is attacked and scattered by elements of the Iron Guard. Days later, the stalwart PCs find themselves outside the walls of Whitethrone and face the daunting task of entering a city where the only social caste they outrank is the slaves.
I like to describe the different creatures that can be observed coming and going from Whitethrone. Obviously humans, but also many snow goblins, ice trolls and even a frost giant band. I describe a queue of creatures waiting outside of the two gates to enter the city. The line ebbs and flows, but it gives the players the impression that gaining legitimate entry is a possibility. All of my tables (7 thus far) have elected to pose as merchants of some type or another. Some of them pose as slavers and get their friends to play the part of prisoners. I like the sandbox approach of the scenario.
Here’s where I take some liberties with the scenario. The Iron Guard of Irrisen are responsible for allowing non-citizens to enter the city. At each gate a contingent of Iron Guards question any humanoids who don’t appear to belong in the city. They ask their questions in Skald and become immediately suspicious toward anyone who can’t speak their tongue. I describe the gate commander as an ugly, stout, orange-haired woman who switches to accented Common with a sneer. “What name?”, “Where from?”, “What reason come to Whitethrone?” I enjoy role-playing this encounter because the players are at the mercy of the GM in this situation. They have to put their necks on the chopping block and if anything goes wrong it’s all over. The Pathfinder Society is not going to be able to recover bodies in Irrisen. When a player begins to answer the questions, I will interrupt “IS STUPID NAME!” & “IS STUPID PLACE! FULL OF BOYS WHO WILT LIKE LEAVES AT FIRST SNOW!!” and so on. The woman is not very worldly but she is free with her opinions. She lords her power over the lowly foreigners and swiftly punishes any sass the PCs give her. If she catches a PC lying with a Sense Motive check she will deny them entry. If a PC is not showing the proper amount of deference she will deny them entry. If a PC says they are a merchant but can’t produce any merchandise to sell in the city, she will deny them entry. The good news is there are TWO gates into Irrisen.
There is a scribe present who is taking notes on all the answers the PCs give. This can be used to catch players who try and change their story later on. Here is an idea: PCs who are allowed to enter Whitethrone have to obtain a visa at the Iron Barracks. The gate commander determines how long the visa for each PC will be. I base this on how good their role-play was. PCs who role-play well or have a good Diplomacy check are authorized to stay in the city for 2-3 days or more. Less fortunate PCs are either denied entry or are only give a one day visa. This impacts how much time the PCs will have to find Skagne and get out of the city before they become fair game.
The gate commander tells the PCs how long they can stay in the city after questioning each of them. She tells them to proceed down the main boulevard to the Iron Barracks and relay how long their stay will be to the officials there. As long as they go right to the Iron Barracks and get a visa they’ll be safe. Stray from the roadway and all bets are off. Lie to the Iron Guards and all bets are off. Not only do the officials at the Iron Barracks give the PCs each a visa, but the PCs are assigned a place to stay for the evening. They are instructed to check into the inn or hostel by dusk and remain there until dawn. Their compliance will be confirmed by the Iron Guard that evening.
The visa is made from human skin. It must be displayed at all times while on the streets of Irrisen. It has the bearer’s name and the expiration date, as well as a declaration that the bearer is under the protection of Queen Elvana for the duration.
Here’s a juvenile twist I like to use. If there is a male PC present with a decent Charisma score, the gate commander gets ‘interested’ in getting to know him better. She tells him to tell the officials at the Iron Barracks that he’s to stay at her favorite inn “The Witch’s Hearth”. He should tell the innkeeper that “Helga sends him”. In thickly-accented Common she promises “I check on you later, make sure you are…comfortable…in Whitethrone”. Think about a throaty Russian accent for this one. Taldor PCs should be paying attention, because upon Helga’s cloak is a badge they are very interested in. At the Witch’s Hearth the bemused innkeeper shows the PC to the room reserved by “Helga Troll-Thighs” for her special projects. Nailed to the walls all around the room are mattresses for sound-suppression. The rest I leave to your imagination. I did say this was a juvenile twist. Anyway, with some consecutive Fortitude saves a lucky PC might outlast Helga, be able to recover the badge, slip out of the room and do the Walk of Shame back to his companions.
After that the scenario runs as written, with the PCs rooting the Shadow Lodge out of Whitethrone and all. However, if at any point the PCs do not spend the night at their assigned location the Iron Guard starts to hunt them. If the PCs created a lot of commotion at the brewery, they might get confronted by a patrol when they go to leave the building. If a PC stole Helga’s badge she might be the one leading the patrol, which can make for some fun role-playing.
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I've got a question on the last rooom
** spoiler omitted **
There aren't any rafters described in the room. The only thing that is specified is the dragon is on a 'perch'. The GM could describe it as a rafter, but it could be a ledge as well. Unless the PCs have a way to see through the obscuring mist effect that covers the upper 10' of the room then they can't see what the dragon is perched on, rafter or otherwise. I would be fine with the GM just making something up if the players are intent on such details.
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I was the GM in question for the rafters. I saw that there was a perch, and assumed there would be rafters. I was running it 1-2, with 7 players and a *very* well optimised 3rd level character who could have offed the final big bad in a round. I added that there were metal rafters running along, helping hold up the room. Made for a fun combat as the party got into a game of cat and mouse. The bug pit did more damage than the big bad, ultimately, so it all worked out in the end.
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I was the GM in question for the rafters. I saw that there was a perch, and assumed there would be rafters. I was running it 1-2, with 7 players and a *very* well optimised 3rd level character who could have offed the final big bad in a round. I added that there were metal rafters running along, helping hold up the room. Made for a fun combat as the party got into a game of cat and mouse. The bug pit did more damage than the big bad, ultimately, so it all worked out in the end.
Yes, it's almost impossible to challenge a party in Tier 1-2 of this scenario, yet if playing up were an option (depending on how the levels average out) you run the risk of overwhelming them. So you make it as interesting as you can and hope they don't crush their opponents too quickly. I hope the level 3 player was holding back and letting the others get to participate.
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Yes, it's almost impossible to challenge a party in Tier 1-2 of this scenario, yet if playing up were an option (depending on how the levels average out) you run the risk of overwhelming them. So you make it as interesting as you can and hope they don't crush their opponents too quickly. I hope the level 3 player was holding back and letting the others get to participate.
He held back admirably for the most part. The goblins he one rounded (a lvl 1 was at 0 health, so he stepped it up), but the rest of the adventure, he held back and used his wand of infernal healing to keep the party alive. And we had 5 lvl 1's at the table, so playing up was not an option.
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I'm running this at Comicpalooza this weekend and my wife will be playing her Winter Witch PC.
How should I adjust NPC reactions in this case? Is she going to make entering the city a cakewalk?
I wouldn't. I would keep it standard. I don't know that all Winter Witches are automatically tied to Whitethrone. And how would the guards necessarily know who she is. I'd say just RAW.
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I'm thinking the guards might view her as one of the lesser jadwiga. Bluffing them into thinking her one of the Elvanna would be as audacious as it would be dangerous.
Well, I'd make it the same bluff check that would be necessary to enter anyway. It's like a 20 or 25 I think (i'm too lazy to pull it out.LOL)
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So I'm running this on Sunday and I'm trying to plan contingencies related to the final encounter in my head.
On paper the fight looks moderate to challenging if played in a straight up fashion (Breath then melee engage until finish using retreating 5ft steps for AOO's because of the ice floors). I'm somewhat fine with this approach though its a little simple and doesn't use the strongest tactical advantage in the room- The fog cloud.
I don't want to be unfair with the dragons tactics. But what is seriously stopping it from remaining in the fog cloud and continually using its breath weapon from safety?
I mean, I can see how a dragon might have enough bravado to engage in melee when it thinks its stronger. But if the melee isn't going in its favor, whats stopping Aralantryx from retreating into the fog bank and fighting from there indefinitely with its breath weapon? Would a dragon suicide itself against superior melee forces if it has such a strong tactical edge elsewhere?
Of course the PC's may have ways to deal with the Fog. And that would make for a good conclusion. But I think its fair to assume that they may not given the very specific nature of seeing through fog or moving it.
Is such a tactic fair/unfun in this context?
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I'm not going to spoiler this message since, well, it's a GM discussion after all.
Anyway, after both playing and running this encounter, both groups have decided to not enter the room at all once the combat begins. And I can understand why, it's a death trap. Can't remember how Deussu GM'd the dragon when I was a player, but as a GM I eventually buckled and attacked the group outside the room. The combat was starting to overstay its welcome since neither the dragon nor the group was willing to engage.
Here's what I would do: Use the fog cloud for a while, but play upon the stupidity of the white dragons. They are the least intelligent and the most feral of the chromatics. Should any a party member step up and challenge the dragon verbally or insult it(calling it a coward for staying in the safety of the mists, for instance), have the beast immediately charge the the PC for daring to insult their better.
This approach avoids a Mexican stand-off between both opponents, which is a situation you don't want to GM, trust me.
Additionally, this way the fight won't be an autowin to the dragon, but it might just leave a lasting impact on the party. Of course, a dragon fight isn't cool enough without combat banter, so it should mock the PCs for trying to fight something far greater than themselves, be offended by challenges like a great dragon would, etc. A fight to remember, in a nutshell.
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I ended up trying to have the dragon use hit and run tactics. He'd breathe from the mist (1rd). Then land and bite from reach (2rd). Full attack for a round (3rd). And then try and re-enter the mists to prepare for more breathing (4th).
The party was able to defeat him somewhere in the 3rd cycle. They were lucky in that they blinded the dragon early in the fight, the witch was making liberal use of her debuffs, and the flaming sphere scroll was used to good effect. There was also a well timed web spell somewhere in there.
There was 1 player brought to negatives early when he got isolated but his teammates were able to heal him up. As I recall he was also the one who got the killing blow on the dragon in the end. A thrown hammer with precision damage (rogue) smacking the poor blind dragon in the head. Was a nice ending :).
Everyone was low health at the end of the fight. Mostly due to the breathing I'm sure. The parties APL was on the low end of the high tier (6 players), so they had fewer HP to work with.