Hi,
we came across something yesterday that isnt really explained anywhere.
Now some classes (e.g. Wizard) state clearly they need 8h rest, but then some of my players came up with the Point of Elven Trancing (not sure how to spell that correctly). Neither the Core, the Advanced or the GameMastery states ANYTHING about that. Digging in the iNet I found that the 3.5 Eleven Trance when out of the Window and dosnt Exist anymore, but others state that Elves in Golarion still have the 4h, but the Eleves of Golarion is a 3.5 Companion Guide.
Now this is all very nice and up to the GM, BUT when you are going into Trial of the Beast it becomes rather important.
So whats the verdict?
Yep. Arcane casters have to do the whole trial on only one batch of spells. Specifically, it limits the amount of divination they can do.
Being an elf isn't even relevant, check the rules
To prepare his daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but he must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If his rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time he has to rest in order to clear his mind, and he must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing his spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, he still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.
Yep. Arcane casters have to do the whole trial on only one batch of spells. Specifically, it limits the amount of divination they can do.
I'm aware of the rules for Magic users, but I'm asking about ELVES in general. Spell caster aside it will majorly impact the Adventure.
TotB Page 17
Familiarize yourself with the rules on light(Pathf inder RPG Core Rulebook 172–173) and fatigue and exhaustion (Core Rulebook 567). You might also consider using a variant rule where characters who do not get a full night’s sleep may suffer the effects of fatigue. If a PC does not get at least 6 hours of sleep, she must make a DC 15 Fortitude save or be fatigued and take a –1 penalty on all other checks and saving throws against sleep effects. A second night without sleep requires another DC 15 Fortitude save. A failed save results in the character becoming exhausted and the penalties increasing to –2. A third failed save on the next night increases the penalties to –3.
Also TotB seams to diviate from the standart rules a bit..see below. Please note that it says above -1 on all checks...THAT includes the checks in Court...One or more Elves would change the picture a lot.
Core Page 567:
Exhausted: An exhausted character moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a –6 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. After 1 hour of complete rest, an exhausted character becomes fatigued. A fatigued character becomes exhausted by doing something else that would normally cause fatigue.
Fatigued: A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a –2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued.
I do believe Lesser Restoration will be your friend...
I do believe Lesser Restoration will be your friend...
Oh but it will...cause it uses a spell slot or a Magic Item....
Guyes....how are you plan to deal with sleep when you start TotB?
I'm going to ignore the part about Exhausted, because that's a *huge* penalty, and by the normal rules you can get it back with only an hour's worth of rest (and my PCs will complain if they can't do that).
But the mounting -1 per day, plus Fatigued? Sounds great!
I don't have any elves in my party, so I don't have to worry about that angle. If I did, they I would let them trance for 4 hours and be good, because that's how elves work in my version of Golarion. And that's fine, because it's nice for them to actually get mechanical benefit from that ability.
For you campaign, it doesn't matter how "canon" works, it matters how your world works. When your PCs made elves, how did you tell them their sleep cycle worked? Be consistant, and don't change their character. Whatever exists in the social contract between you and them is *so* much more important that what's written down in some book that you don't have.
http://langenhan.info/RPG/Sleep_and_Rest.pdf.pdf
I also added what my group decided to do with Elves (House rule)
Thanks for the input.
A couple comments if I may:
You more-or-less spoiler to the PCs that there will be three nights of lack of sleep. Yes, they have NPCs telling them that the trial should only last that long, but the PCs should also have doubts about how exactly things are going to go down. Maybe there will be an appeal and it will go for 6 nights? I wouldn't make it cut-and-dry obvious in the rules doc that it'll be exactly 3 nights.
Since you seem to be trying to be extra thorough, you may want to explicitly address if Fatigued and the miscellanious penalty are linked. In other words, let's say I fail the Fort save the first night, so I get both "Fatigued" and "-1 to all rolls", and then I get hit with a LesserResto: does that cure my "-1 to all rolls" condition, or not? I know how I would rule as a GM ("no"), but it's not clear how you would rule. And if you're trying to be up-front about things, you might as well address it, rather than risk an argument mid-game when the PCs' assumptions differ from yours.
Your chart concerning the Paladin's Mercy is very confusing. A base Mercy does not heal Fatigue. The fact that the 2nd line says "requires Fatigue Mercy" but the first doesn't made this extra confusing. I figured it out eventually, but could be clearer.
Again, I understand you're trying to be thorough, but I slightly disagree with listing out every spell and effect. Perhaps this is purely a personal-taste issue, but when you list out every spell and ability that can cure Fatigue, you implicitly communicate that these are commonplace and readily available. For example, if I was a PC in your game, and you handed me this PDF, I would feel empowered to seek out an NPC that took the Healing domain so that I could get Restorative Touch, and if I couldn't find one (for whatever in-game reason) I would feel cheated. Once you put this document in front of me, I feel like these things are "owed" to me, and if you prohibit me from getting them, then you're deliberately teasing me and being mean.
It also takes away some of the mystique: the list has some rare (photosynthesis) or high level (soothing performance) abilities on it. By compiling magic in such a way, it really loses its charm and, well, "magic." Perhaps I'm speaking too deeply out of personal preference at this point.
It also takes away from the PCs' sense of discovery and "figuring things out" on their own. Some players like to try and solve problems mechanically (it's part of why combat is so fun). Here, you've gone and solved the problem for them. To me, it's similar to running a combat and narrating to the PCs what you think is the best general strategy. Sure, it's still up to them to figure out the specific details and roll the dice, but it sucks some of the joy out of it as they no longer take ownership of the victory. Again, my opinion.
Anyway, you seemed like you wanted feedback! Sorry if I misread your request.
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Thanks for that feedback, much appreciated, you have a very valid point there. I woudnt hand my PC's that sheet, its more for GM use, but I didnt spelled that out. I updated the doc and removed the TotB reference, which, as a Physicis guy, no reference...brrrrrrr, but your right it kind of spoiles....but then the same can happen very easy in HoH or anywhere really.
I started researching Sleep and found its not documented very well in the Rules and is all over the place. So I collected all the info and compiled it.
I updated the Mercy lines, your right about that.
...In other words, let's say I fail the Fort save the first night, so I get both "Fatigued" and "-1 to all rolls", and then I get hit with a LesserResto: does that cure my "-1 to all rolls" condition, or not? I know how I would rule as a GM ("no"), but it's not clear how you would rule. ...
As Lesser Restoration will heal 1d4 of temp attribute damage AND removes Fatigue. I would rule that as the lesser restoration removes Fatigue and heals the temp damage it should also remove the -1's. Said that I would rule that it removes only ONE -1. So that if you are a second day going (and would suffer -2) one would need 2 lesser Restoration.