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I'm just throwing this out there cause I'm a nub at 4e still but at lvl 2 my fighters AC is 21 which feels low to me.
Breakdown:
10(base)+1(1/2 level)+8(Dwarven Scale Mail +1)+2(large Shield)
Stats:
STR 18(+4)
CON 16(+3)
DEX 12(+1)
WIS 14(+2)
CHA 10
INT 10
I used the DDI character builder so it did the math for me but after playing I feel as though too many attacks are slipping through to hit me. Should I have one or two more AC that I'm missing from something?
I do have the feat that lets me add +1 to my AC and REF when I use a shield based power.
I'm just throwing this out there cause I'm a nub at 4e still but at lvl 2 my fighters AC is 21 which feels low to me.
Breakdown:
10(base)+1(1/2 level)+8(Dwarven Scale Mail +1)+2(large Shield)Stats:
STR 18(+4)
CON 16(+3)
DEX 12(+1)
WIS 14(+2)
CHA 10
INT 10I used the DDI character builder so it did the math for me but after playing I feel as though too many attacks are slipping through to hit me. Should I have one or two more AC that I'm missing from something?
I do have the feat that lets me add +1 to my AC and REF when I use a shield based power.
Looks fine to me.
What you'll notice is that the heavily armoured PCs don't really have much of an advantage in AC early on but as the levels go by they will increasingly pull away from their less armoured brethren.
Mechanically this is because magic armours, all of them, get traits like Finemail or Meteoric on top of being +1 or +3 and being Executioner's Armour or whatever.
Here is a concrete example.
Leather Gives You +2 AC,
Chain Gives you +6 AC
Plate Gives you +8 AC
But with +3 magic armour you don't usually find Leather or Chain +3 instead you might find the following
Drowmesh (leather) which gives +2 to AC and +1 to reflex defence.
Braid Mail (Chain) which gives +8 to AC
Githplate (Plate) Which Gives +10 to AC
Notice that the heavier armours started to give an even larger bonus to AC then their more standard versions. This continues with leather pretty much always giving just that +2 but the heavier armours jumping so that of you had +4 magic plate you'd be able to find one that gave a +12 to AC.
The result is that everyone AC is rising from the 4E mechanics but the people in heavier armour are actually rising faster.
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Wow thanks for all the responses guy. Currently I'm level three and I want to play a fighter defender and so far I've done well being a meat bag and want to make sure I can take a beating or mitigate as much as I can.
My DM let me try a few sessions as a weaponmaster and a few as a knight and there are pros and cons to each as far as class abilities. The defender aura is awesome but I miss combat supieriority. That being said I've got a concern about fighter marking come higher levels. It seems like being marked will be less and less of an threat as you progress, even at level 3 I would have no problem taking the penalty and as a knight I don't do enough damage to make provoking a reason to stick around so I'm having a problem keeping my targets from getting away. While I was a weaponmaster I had combat superiority to at least stop them from getting away but then I could only mark a limited number of targets.
Wow thanks for all the responses guy. Currently I'm level three and I want to play a fighter defender and so far I've done well being a meat bag and want to make sure I can take a beating or mitigate as much as I can.
My DM let me try a few sessions as a weaponmaster and a few as a knight and there are pros and cons to each as far as class abilities. The defender aura is awesome but I miss combat supieriority. That being said I've got a concern about fighter marking come higher levels. It seems like being marked will be less and less of an threat as you progress, even at level 3 I would have no problem taking the penalty and as a knight I don't do enough damage to make provoking a reason to stick around so I'm having a problem keeping my targets from getting away. While I was a weaponmaster I had combat superiority to at least stop them from getting away but then I could only mark a limited number of targets.
Unfortunately I have not seen a knight in action so I am not the best for comparing and contrasting these two classes. 3rd is also not exactly the point where you can really evaluate how the classes compare. 4E characters grow in their role with each passing level and here your more getting a taste of things to come as opposed to a real example of how it all plays out.
I will say that the Weaponmasters ability to lock down targets that try and shift away can be used to hold enemies to him. By 5th and beyond your going to shift increasingly away from using your at wills, as you pick up more and more encounter powers you'll find that combats don't really get much longer in terms of rounds in combat so you'll transit to a point where every round you tend to use another encounter power and your at wills play a decreasing role in how your character acts on the battlefield.
Weaponmasters have some ability to lock down multiple opponents somewhat though they are more geared toward a style of 'mano a mano' with the biggest baddest hombre among the enemies - its really Paladin (and it sounds like Knight) that uses a bull horn to tell every enemy within a 2 kilometre radius that they are marked. This is mainly that Paladins mark at range and their powers reflect that - Weaponmasters need to have gotten beside their opponents and attacked them at some point to mark them...not the case 100% but roughly true of look and feel. In some sense you have identified the contrast - Weaponmasters Mark is more of a sure thing, but you get less enemies with that reliability...pick your poison.
Weapon master would be geared towards single tarket tanking and damage, with encounters powers that allows them to mark mulitple targets. The most infamous one being Come and Get It. It is also great for targeting ranged attack creatures, since they would want to step away from you, in order to attack. I view the knight as increasing the defenses of those around him, as long as he can position himself next to as many creatures as possible. However, I have not played any essential based classes.
I believe they have a class comparison for defenders via the following link, but I can not access the site at this time to provide the specific reference.
www.neuroglyphgames.com
I'm currently playing a 4E Knight (12th level) and he locks down anything that's adjacent to him. Period. Combat Superority is nice and all but 1 glaring problem is that it's only effective against 1 target for the round. So even if you have 2, 3, or 4 guys around you, you gain one opportuinity attack and the rest just have a general mark (if you've been able to mark them all at once that is).
The Knight, on the other hand, can mark anyone adjacent and his attacks are Opportuinity Actions (that work 1/turn, not 1/round) and thus if those enemies move or shift on their turn, BAM! You get an attack. I've also found my Knight dishing out some pretty heafty DPR for a defender. I go with a Full-blade and use Power Attack quite often (added to Battle Wrath stance) and I get 1d12 + 13 + 3 (battle Wrath) + 6 Power Attack = 1d12+22 with a MBA.
Also, something to note is the feat Martial Cross-Training. You can swap one of your Power Strike uses for an encounter power of your level or lower. Suprise, suprise I chose Come and Get it, which is just nasty!
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@Uchawi: I found the posts you made referrence here and it was informative if not subjective. It's hard to break down utility and skill into numbers to quantify but the blogger did a decent job. If anything I feel more solid about playing knight.
@Diffan: This is some excellent input, cross-training caught my eye but it didn’t occur to me I could switch out one of my power strikes for something. I liked combat superiority simply because it stopped their movement; have you found any skills or abilities that give you similar effects? Closest i can work out id Defend the line stance to slow them.
I'm currently playing a 4E Knight (12th level) and he locks down anything that's adjacent to him. Period. Combat Superority is nice and all but 1 glaring problem is that it's only effective against 1 target for the round. So even if you have 2, 3, or 4 guys around you, you gain one opportuinity attack and the rest just have a general mark (if you've been able to mark them all at once that is).
The Knight, on the other hand, can mark anyone adjacent and his attacks are Opportuinity Actions (that work 1/turn, not 1/round) and thus if those enemies move or shift on their turn, BAM! You get an attack. I've also found my Knight dishing out some pretty heafty DPR for a defender. I go with a Full-blade and use Power Attack quite often (added to Battle Wrath stance) and I get 1d12 + 13 + 3 (battle Wrath) + 6 Power Attack = 1d12+22 with a MBA.
Also, something to note is the feat Martial Cross-Training. You can swap one of your Power Strike uses for an encounter power of your level or lower. Suprise, suprise I chose Come and Get it, which is just nasty!
If the target shifts, normally you do not get an AOO, but I don't have access to the knight to determine if they have a feature that allows it.
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Defender Aura allows them an AoO.
Defender Aura pretty much says "An enemy subject to your defender aura gets -2 to attacks that do not include you or someone else with defender aura and if they shift or make an attack that does not include you, you can make a mellee basic attack against them."
It's like a mark without marking.
Defender Aura allows them an AoO.
Defender Aura pretty much says "An enemy subject to your defender aura gets -2 to attacks that do not include you or someone else with defender aura and if they shift or make an attack that does not include you, you can make a mellee basic attack against them."
It's like a mark without marking.
Pretty much, yes. Couple of things I do when I get into combat is:
1). Minor Action = Defend the Line stance.2). Move adjacent to an enemy (or more favorably, multiple enemies) via a Charge if possible.
3). Melee Basic Attack.
On a successful attack, the target is slowed. If that target triggers my Defender's Aura and my OA hits, it falls prone via the World Serpent Grasp feat. On my turn, against a prone target I'll use a Minor action to swap to the Battle Wrath stance, Power Attack, Power Strike (depending on if I crit or just want to pour on more DPR) and Melee Basic Attack. I'll then use a Minor Action to change back to the Defend the Line stance. Add in feats like Vicious Advantage and Headman's Chop and the little mechanic makes the Knight a great secondary Striker!
I would like to try the knight, if only to compare against the PHB1 fighter. Maybe the biggest difference is access to daily powers, and hybrid class choices.