So I was thinking about it a lot this past week, and I may have come up with something that could make this all work.
Monk's already get to add their Wis mod to AC and they get that Monk AC bonus thing (which is just kinda dirty). Why not allow Monks to add their Wis mod to damage as well. This way it directly ties into their Ki pool and stunning fist and all that. It wouldn't even be that much more damage, but it would really help their flurry of blows attacks to not "suck" (compared to the more heavy DPS characters)
Starting with 16s in both Dex and Wis at lvl one would only give the Monk an extra 3 damage per hit anyway and chances are they only have a 12 in Str. d6+4 seems reasonable.
Wis to
AC, Will saves, Hit (if Zen Archer), Skills (including the all-powerful Perception), Ki pool, Stunning fist saves (IIRC), Ki ability saves (esp for Qingong), and damage?
Mm...Sounds like a god stat.
I mean, even Dex, which borders on "one skill to rule them all" territory already is just AC, Reflex (less important than will), Hit, Skills (Including the mighty Stealth and Acrobatics), and Damage (with one Scimitar held in one hand and a couple of feats, as opposed to a TWF-esque flurry)
how about a feat chain that would add wisdom to damage additonally to str
give something less awesome before it cause it seems to strong for a straight feat.
Wis to
AC, Will saves, Hit (if Zen Archer), Skills (including the all-powerful Perception), Ki pool, Stunning fist saves (IIRC), Ki ability saves (esp for Qingong), and damage?
Mm...Sounds like a god stat.
I mean, even Dex, which borders on "one skill to rule them all" territory already is just AC, Reflex (less important than will), Hit, Skills (Including the mighty Stealth and Acrobatics), and Damage (with one Scimitar held in one hand and a couple of feats, as opposed to a TWF-esque flurry)
So Monks, who are all about combat mastery through personal enlightenment, would get as much use out of their Wisdom score as Paladins get out of Charisma, or Wizards get out of Intelligence?
Sounds like a good start to me.
I agree a wisdom modifier to the damage would be divine i have always seen the monk being about not brute strength but just knowing where to hit and when. like the kid who gets a super brain and can now play football because he can see the "math" kinda thing. i think it should be a either or scenario not both either str or wis. I also think they should get better feats dealing with grapple and other combat manuver bonuses. i posted a bunch of grapple feats i made in my first post here. http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/houseRules/grappleFeats&page=1#5
Wis to
AC, Will saves, Hit (if Zen Archer), Skills (including the all-powerful Perception), Ki pool, Stunning fist saves (IIRC), Ki ability saves (esp for Qingong), and damage?
Mm...Sounds like a god stat.
I mean, even Dex, which borders on "one skill to rule them all" territory already is just AC, Reflex (less important than will), Hit, Skills (Including the mighty Stealth and Acrobatics), and Damage (with one Scimitar held in one hand and a couple of feats, as opposed to a TWF-esque flurry)
So Monks, who are all about combat mastery through personal enlightenment, would get as much use out of their Wisdom score as Paladins get out of Charisma, or Wizards get out of Intelligence?
Sounds like a good start to me.
Bullcrap. Paladins don't get charisma to attack except on smite, don't get it to AC, and charisma skills are not nearly as versatile as Wisdom skills.
Also, Wizards don't get Int to AC. It allows them to take more skills, sure, but it doesn't affect to hit or damage except with certain select school powers or spells, and isn't a save stat.
But Paladins apply CHA to ALL saves, Lay on Hands, the best skills (roleplaying wise, a Paladin without either intimidate or diplomacy is a fool), Smite, and a number of different things that I've likely forgotten.
Wizards add INT to: knowledge checks (which are all class skills), skills generally, spell DC's, spells per day, and a number of different thins that I've likely forgotten.
What He's saying is that the class gets USE out of maxing out these skills. The manifestation is different for each class.
I'm all for adding WIS to damage, and it fits the intent of the monk perfectly. That being said, I'd just give them the ability to add the guided quality X number of times per day.
Hm. I'll grant that. Still, with all the blanket immunities paladins get, their saves are much less necessary by later levels.
I'm perfectly fine with a rounds/day guided for monks, but am a bit uneasy about the guided weapon quality in general. Monks are ostensibly underpowered, but that's in DPR/optimization threads. So yeah, on paper, monks are MAD and people take issue with them being underpowered. In practice? I've yet to see monk as underpowered. They've usually been able to fill many roles adequately (recon/detective work, tanking, reasonable damage, running for aid, and face support with Sense motive checks)
I will admit that APG did more to help other "weak" classes like Rogue and Barbarian than to help monks, but UM did nothing for the rogue or barbarian.
Eh. I guess I'm just going to take the advice I give other people I regularly game with and wait for Ultimate Combat.
Pump sense motive, perception, maybe 1 or 2 of the social skills and look into Monk of the Empty Hand archetype, and then hell yes they do.
Pump sense motive, perception, maybe 1 or 2 of the social skills and look into Monk of the Empty Hand archetype, and then hell yes they do.
Why Monk of the Empty Hand? I'm not sure if the original Sherlock Holmes used many improvised weapons, but I do remember he was mentioned to be a very good boxer.
Well. Monk of the Empty Hand is something that the original Sherlock Holmes may not mesh perfectly with, but then, he doesn't fit vanilla Monk perfectly either (slow fall, ki pool, various immunities?). Or fighter. Or any one class (and many robust fictional characters do not). But IMO it fits the flavor. Also, in a setting where Holmes would have to face down more enemies, and wherein some enemies were only vulnerable to certain damage types (DR/piercing slashing or bludgeoning), it would seem to me that a well-prepared man such as he would at the very least study techniques to allow him to be versatile in this sort of combat.
So, while it may not be your thing for your concept, I would build with that, and so, suggested it based on my thought process.
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I agree a wisdom modifier to the damage would be divine i have always seen the monk being about not brute strength but just knowing where to hit and when.
If it were to be assumed that the wisdom modifier added to damage as 'knowing where to hit' then would it be concidered percision damage making such creatures that are immune to percision damage immune to it?
Honestly?
Just give them warrior BAB, let them wear light armor, and give them some sort of supreme spring attack where they can make any attacks at any point in their movement.
Then they'd be almost as good as fighters.
If it were to be assumed that the wisdom modifier added to damage as 'knowing where to hit' then would it be concidered percision damage making such creatures that are immune to percision damage immune to it?I agree a wisdom modifier to the damage would be divine i have always seen the monk being about not brute strength but just knowing where to hit and when.
I'd imagine it as another Ki ability, using your wisdom to focus your ki by qigong in your attacks - like in those videos where zen monks throw common sewing needles through solid glass (or, in fiction, like these anime characters who deal special punches that focus their energy not on the armor/hard muscles they hit but the fragile inside... well that would be more of a touch attack in terms of d20...)
Honestly?
Just give them warrior BAB, let them wear light armor, and give them some sort of supreme spring attack where they can make any attacks at any point in their movement.Then they'd be almost as good as fighters.
Sounds nice... still I have some issues about the light armor, it's just that iconic monks from the movies (like Shaolin Temple) don't wear them - KotoR 2 features some heavy robes for jedi knights, why not give monks such stuff instead of light armor?
I really like the spring attack idea, that's how monks should fightWis to
AC, Will saves, Hit (if Zen Archer), Skills (including the all-powerful Perception), Ki pool, Stunning fist saves (IIRC), Ki ability saves (esp for Qingong), and damage?
For Zen Archers it's indeed an issue - on the other hand, if archers only get str damage boni by composite bows, who says they get wis boni at all? One could easily restrict the bonus to melee should Zen Archers get too strong
Good point.