the black-baller looks problematic
you are taking a fighter archetype that is going to replace two of your bonus feats
so assuming you only take one level of gunslinger and go human, you still are going to have to take like six more levels in fighter before you approach getting all the feats on your current list...not too mention once you have all of those, your damage output will still be pretty low for a level 7 character in PFS
by the time you add some damage enhancement feats to either dual-wielding the sawtooth sabres or to your gun, your Pathfinder career is going to be mostly over
if you are going for pure theme on the black baller, check out the 'Empty Quiver' line of style feats from the 'Weapon Master's Handbook' Player Companion
I built a Human Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger) 1 / Brawler 1 / Fighter (Lore Warden) 5
So, by level 7 I have:
-Weapon Focus (Pistol)
-Improved Unarmed Strike
-Gunsmithing
-Combat Expertise
-Point-Blank Shot
-Rapid Reload (Pistol)
-Rapid Shot
-Empty Quiver Style (All Firearms, Pistol)
-Empty Quiver Flurry (Pistol)
-Empty Quiver Flexibility (Pistol)
-Stabbing Shot
-(Martial Flexibility roving combat feat)
essentially running around, avoiding AoOs, shooting bad guys and occasionally beating them to death with the pistol itself or fists
basically I was trying to build John Wick :S
it is still not a very optimized build, but thematically it is fun and it should do a bit more damage than what you were going for while still having the 'strategery' of positional movements like (I think) you were going for with Dodge, Mobility, etc.
Note that instead of Deft Shootist, Weapon Specializaton -> Point-Blank Master does the same thing with straight-up useful prerequisites.
I was actually toying with the idea of a Spellslinger/ Eldritch Knight using the spell Reloading Hands to load-up and fire-off both barrels of a double-barreled pistol once per round, using the ability to fire both barrels with a single attack at point-blank range while also wielding a sword. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I would trust a PFS GM not to rule against the idea that multiple phantom hands whose sole purpose is to reload a firearm can load both barrels in one round. I think it's a pretty odd ruling to make given the context of the spell, but...
Anyhow, Spellslinger is fun for the fact that you can eventually sacrifice a level 4 spell slot to imbue a gun-barrel with +1d6 fire, +1d6 frost, +1d6 electricity and +1d6 acid. Bam!
Keep in mind, BadBird, that OP is trying to stay as close to PFS-legal as possible, and the Spellslinger archetype for Wizard is not PFS-legal.
For OP, I guess I should have been more clear. The 'John Wick' feat progression I mentioned above was a pretty sub-optimal concept that I quickly abandoned. I liked it thematically and I thought it might do what (I thought) you are trying to do with the Black Baller a bit better.
I still think you are trying to do too much with too few resources. By 6-7, you still have a build that dual-wields sabres for both poor hit and poor damage. You can fire a pistol once before move-action reloading, also for poor damage. You have the ability to move around a fair bit, but positioning does not do much for you with this build, apart from eating the occasional AoO.
I'm not trying to bag on your build, but I'm concerned that playing a character for six to seven levels (anywhere from 6-7 to 18-21 sessions, GM credit notwithstanding) who is poor in combat and has little utility out of combat may not be a very enjoyable experience for you, but also for those around you at your PFS tables.
damage:
other than point-blank shot, you have nothing that is increasing the damage of any of your three weapons. your build has only four fighter levels until level 10 so you are not even getting Weapon Training for a small bump.
your ability scores will have to be pretty MAD since you will need good DEX, STR, CON and at least some WIS for grit. So you wont be adding much STR to damage, especially since you are TWF/'ing.
you will have three weapons to upgrade via gold to keep at a solid level of quality/DR-bypass, which will limit other item buying and limit the progression of all three weapons in general
even if you go the slashing grace route past level 6, that is three more feats you need - Weapon Focus, Weapon Finesse, Slashing Grace
out of combat utility:
you are going fighter/gunslinger
Gunslinger gets 4+ int skill points
Fighter gets 2 + int skill points
Odds are, since your build is MAD already you will not have any INT or CHA to speak of
Even going Human/skilled, that is a very low amount of skill points
gold-wise, you will be cash-strapped from your three weapons and your MAD need for bonuses to different abilites, so your ability to spend gold on utility will be sharply limited
I would really suggest to concentrate on two aspects of your build, rather than all three:
- mobile/aoO avoidance
- shooting
- two-weapon fighting
as a baseline, a level 6 pistolero gunslinger who is human on a 20 pt buy could have the following feats:
point-blank shot
precise shot
rapid reload
rapid shot
deadly aim
as well as dex to dmg from being a level 5+ pistolero
on a full round attack, assuming they have least upgraded their pistol to +1 by level 6:
+8/+8/+3 1d8+10
or moving for standard action
+10 1d8+10
all on touch-AC
this is not even counting that by spending a grit point, they could add +2d6 precision damage to a hit, in order to finish off a target and get that grit right back
that's with nothing other than the feats and a +1 weapon
now, your build at level 7, a full level ahead. I chose human, 20 point buy with weapon finesse as your level 7 open feat
dodge
mobility
exotic pref - sawtooth sabre
twf
point-blank shot
precise shot
deft-shootist deed
weapon finesse
assuming all three of your weapons have been upgraded to +1 (this is being kind)
you can shoot with your pistol for
+12 1d8+2 on touch-AC
or single attack with one sawtooth while both are drawn
+9 1d8+4
or full attack sawtooth
+9/+4 1D8+4, +9 1D8+2
or fight with one sabre at
+11/+6 1D8+5
Keep in mind, BadBird, that OP is trying to stay as close to PFS-legal as possible, and the Spellslinger archetype for Wizard is not PFS-legal.
Rambling about Spellslinger was more just an aside, though I wasn't aware it wasn't PFS legal. Mostly I was just commenting on how Reloading Hands can solve certain problems, even if it's tough to actually implement.
Something like 4 levels of Conjuration Wizard or Sorcerer + Magical Knack + Wayang Spellhunter: Reloading Hands + Extend Spell would grant 12 rounds of free reloading, and 4 levels of Weaponmaster + Gloves of Dueling + Weapon Specialization + Arcane Strike could give a pistol up to +7 damage and +3 attack. Which would make for a 30+ damage double-barrel blast if both barrels hit, or at least do fairly solid damage with a single shot per round without needing Gunslinger and DEX.
Actually, after looking through assorted options, a Picaroon/ Sorcerer/ Dragon Disciple could work surprisingly well even within PFS levels. A Picaroon gets free firearm proficiency, free TWF when using a firearm in one hand, and a Deed to prevent AoO's from a ranged attack when you can't just 5ft. step. So something like gladius + pistol could work with Dragon Disciple strength, Heroism, and ideally Deliquescent Gloves to pack some extra punch with both weapons while shredding at point-blank range. Swashbuckler levels also mean that Swordmaster's Flair: Blue Scarf is an option, which makes operating melee/pistol without AoO's a lot easier.
Unloading a point-blank double-shot while using TWF and Deadly Aim would have some ugly accuracy issues, but on the upside, a +2 double-barrel pistol unloaded with Deliquescent Gloves is throwing ~30 damage against touch AC in a single TWF attack.
ah I see the issue you are having
the problem here is that you do not understand how loading a pistol works with Rapid Reload and alchemical cartridges (paper)
With Rapid Reload and alchemical cartridges, my reload is a FREE action. The Pistolero is using one gun, not two.
also, at this point, with you switching out and discussing out multiple new feats, I have no idea what your actual build is at level 7. Slashing Grace, Weapon Specialization and even the Gun Training class feature were not in your initial feat and class progression because your were a 4/3 fighter/gunslinger.
regardless of your actual build now, you are basically now doing what I have been suggesting all along, which is to narrow your focus and concentrate on 2 rather 3 of your focal points, rather than going for twf, guns and AoO-avoidance all at once.
effortless lace is not pfs legal
and yeah, if you do not understand the basics
or understand that doing two things well is better than doing three things poorly
then yep maybe it is not for you
at this point you are just being petulant despite the whole point of your thread, which was to get build advice on shell concepts or 'cores' as you called them
I'll start with two Cores that I've been messing around with, and I'd like to see what you guys and gals think. If you have any suggestions, think I've missed something, or even disagree with me completely, speak up! I'm all ears and I think this could really help other players as well who are looking for a good solid foundation for their next character build.
you have your build that now does what you want it to do and is as thematic as it was before...I had suggestions, you definitely were missing things and yes I disagreed with your build strategy completely, so I spoke up.
Now other players who are looking for a solid foundation for their next character build have one
what you should have been specific about was that you were looking for a pat on the back for your ideas rather than feedback on a terrible build
you have a good build now with the same thematic elements of sword and gun thanks to feedback and advice from BadBird and I
getting chippy and bringing up stormwind fallacy-esque nonsense is a bad look
The "throw fun out the window. This is Mathfinder, and if you aren't completely optimized to do one specific task, then you aren't doing it right."
You need to read up on PFS on this forum before making poor assumptions. PFS almost always rewards being well-rounded rather hyper-specialization. This is because in most PFS games, unless you are always playing with the same people and characters, you rarely have any idea what anyone else at the table is going to play. In addition, from scenario to scenario, module to module, you are going to encounter virtually every type of enemy and a huge variety of non-combat situations involving skill checks, non-lethal damage, research/knowledge checks, social skills, disguise/misdirection/lying, stealth/subterfuge, etc.
I am not advocating that you build a pure gunslinger, far from it.
What I was trying to let you know from the beginning of this thread was that with your original Black Baller plan you could wind up playing 7 to even 21 games of pathfinder with a character that isn't even going to approach your theme. Additionally, it would be a frustrating mechanical build that would scale poorly, have some VERY tough early-going and be glaringly outshined by virtually any other decently-built martial character you encountered.
What that example should have shown you was that a level six character that I threw together in a few minutes based on the most common mechanics of building a gunslinger nearly doubled your damage and did everything else your character did mechanically as well or flat-out better. It would also scale comfortably from 1 to 6, being playable and fun at every level. By showing you stock-Pistolero xyz123 in its most common form, that was to give you a baseline for what you could expect to see from others at your table playing similar martial-inclined characters. That was not to show for you to take and use because 'omg damage', it was shown to give you an idea that Black Baller could become MUCH better along their OWN theme if you just fixed some poor build decisions, which you have now done with multiple changes to feats and class progression.
What that was supposed to show you was to stop trying to do three different feat-intensive aspects of combat at the same time with limited levels to work with. Work with two, which you have now done. Now that you have done that you have your build. It is a MUCH better build than what you had before, with no loss of theme.
Actually, looking at it, that build and feat progression does not even work:
I assume you are going:
Fighter
Fighter
Gunslinger
Gunslinger
Gunslinger
Gunslinger
Gunslinger
Correct?
Here are the problems:
--Weapon Specialization requires 4 levels of Fighter, so that's out.
--Slashing Grace requires not using anything else in your other hand, so you immediately lose it while TWFing.
--Your Weapon Focus can't be in Pistol, it needs to be in Pepperbox, which hopefully if you save up you will have enough to buy when you take your first Gunslinger level at 3.
--Since no Weapon Specialization, no Point Blank Master. These would have to wait until level 9, when you pick them up together with your level 9 feat and 3rd fighter bonus feat.
You need to look at probably avoiding Slashing Grace if you plan on dual-wielding in any form, then build back up from there. But at this point, you're trying to target four fighter levels and five gunslinger levels, so your build doesn't seem to come together until level 9 actually, not 7. Even then, you're not getting dex to damage on both weapons, unless you use them separately, in which case TWF is a waste.
Actually, for your purposes here two levels of Juggler Bard would be perfect. You gain the ability to wield two weapons and still have a free hand to reload. Which means that you can be firing-off a double-barrel in melee and reloading it easily.
Something like:
Dual Talent Human: 15/17STR+, 15/17DEX+, 12CON, 10INT, 9WIS, 12CHA
Picaroon 1/ Juggler Bard 2/ Two-Weapon Warrior 6
Gladius & Double-Barreled Pistol ~
1P. *Panache* / (+Two-Weapon Fighting) / (+Firearms Proficiency) / Rapid Reload: Double-Barreled Pistol
2J.
3J. *Combat Juggling* / Point-Blank Shot
4T. +Weapon Focus: Double-Barreled Pistol
5T. Weapon Specialization: Double-Barreled Pistol / +Point-Blank Master
6T. *Defensive Flurry, +1AC on full attack*
7T. Deadly Aim / +Precise Shot
8T. *Twin Blades, +1 attack and damage on full attack*
9T. Weapon Focus: Gladius / +Weapon Specialization: Gladius
Key Items:
+1 Gladius ~ Almost identical to sawtooth, but also has piercing damage and doesn't require a feat.
+1 Shocking Double-Barreled Pistol ~ Unload both barrels for serious damage. Can kite around the battlefield using double-shot and moving.
Deliquescent Gloves ~ All attacks have +1d6(acid).
Swordmaster's Flair: Blue Scarf ~ Gladius becomes a reach weapon.
Spells:
Mending ~ cantrip that will fix a broken firearm.
Vanish ~ take Vanish, and you can pull a "pistol assassination" - use invisibility to fire both barrels point-blank against the touch AC of a target denied DEX, and then continue to full attack. Ouch.