My party is a couple of weeks away from starting up an Age of Worms campaign under PFRPG rules and are still in the process of building out our party structure. Thus far the only two players to nail down what they want to play are a cleric and a witch.
My question to anyone who has played through this campaign (no spoilers if possible, please) is whether or not a witch is sufficient to play the role of primary arcane caster in Age of Worms. Are there any particular wizard spells that are necessary or highly desirable for this campaign that the witch lacks?
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I ran Age of Worms untill we hade a TPK in part 7. The witch should do just fine. The Witch can do every thing you want a arcane caster to do.
If I was planing out a party for Age of Worms. Group of 4.
Paladin :Realy shine in this AP
Cleric or Oracle Life:Channeling Positive energy in the AP dose amazing things.
Witch :Will do just as good as a wizard in the AP. If not better. There are areas where you can't rest between fights. Resorces are close and thats where the witch pulls up front with Hexs.
RogueXX/Ranger6 :You will need both a trap and wilderness. You can do it with a Ranger(Urban), But you don't get both done as well as multiclassing. For what you need.
Other Classes.
Barbarian, Fighter, & Magus :Are good but over all. With what you fight the Paladin pulls out in front.
Wizard, & Sorcerer :Over all good. With the right spelization/bloodline they make very good choices.
Bard :This is one of the few times where I'll say. They are very nice to have. With the story arc the way it is they don't shine as much as normal.
Cavaler :For the story arc they are with out a mount 90% of time.
Druids :With where part of the story takes place it's hard to say how well they wold do. Did not have one in the party when I ran the AP.
Monk :For this AP run away. Just run away now befor you have problems.
Alchimest & Summoner :Could work I don't see a problem with them fiting in to the AP. Not sure how well they will do.
Oracle other then life & Inquisitor :They will do will, but the lack of channel positve energy realy hurts for this AP.
Rogue :Is a requirement for later in the game. There are alot of save or suck traps you need to get around. And plunty of other traps on the way there.
Ranger :A large part of the story line AP. Takes place in wilderness setings. Tracking and Wilderness survival will go along way to keaping the story line moving.
The story arc takes place in so meny difrent envirements. It makes building a party for it harder.
The only slight disadvantage that a witch might have over a wizard is that the witch's spell list has quite a few mind-affecting spells (which won't work on undead unless you have the Threnodic Spell metamagic feat from Ultimate Magic). But I still think a witch would do a fine job as an arcane caster.
I ran Age of Worms untill we hade a TPK in part 7. The witch should do just fine. The Witch can do every thing you want a arcane caster to do.
If I was planing out a party for Age of Worms. Group of 4.
Paladin :Realy shine in this AP
Cleric or Oracle Life:Channeling Positive energy in the AP dose amazing things.
Witch :Will do just as good as a wizard in the AP. If not better. There are areas where you can't rest between fights. Resorces are close and thats where the witch pulls up front with Hexs.
RogueXX/Ranger6 :You will need both a trap and wilderness. You can do it with a Ranger(Urban), But you don't get both done as well as multiclassing. For what you need.Other Classes.
Barbarian, Fighter, & Magus :Are good but over all. With what you fight the Paladin pulls out in front.
Wizard, & Sorcerer :Over all good. With the right spelization/bloodline they make very good choices.
Bard :This is one of the few times where I'll say. They are very nice to have. With the story arc the way it is they don't shine as much as normal.
Cavaler :For the story arc they are with out a mount 90% of time.
Druids :With where part of the story takes place it's hard to say how well they wold do. Did not have one in the party when I ran the AP.
Monk :For this AP run away. Just run away now befor you have problems.
Alchimest & Summoner :Could work I don't see a problem with them fiting in to the AP. Not sure how well they will do.
Oracle other then life & Inquisitor :They will do will, but the lack of channel positve energy realy hurts for this AP.
Rogue :Is a requirement for later in the game. There are alot of save or suck traps you need to get around. And plunty of other traps on the way there.
Ranger :A large part of the story line AP. Takes place in wilderness setings. Tracking and Wilderness survival will go along way to keaping the story line moving.The story arc takes place in so meny difrent envirements. It makes building a party for it harder.
On the topic of the ranger, what would your thoughts be on the Trapper archetype from UM? It substitutes the ranger's spellcasting progression for the rogue's trapfinding class feature, and the ability to learn (and fire from a bow) the new ranger traps. Would this be a workable substitute for a rogue since it gets trapfinding without sacrificing wilderness abilities?
Don't wast your time with a traper. The AP is set up in such a way there uselesss.
Well, I wasn't thinking about the traps themselves, but more along the lines of having a wilderness navigator/another full BAB attacker that can also fulfill the rogue's only real role. The traps themselves would just be gravy the few times they could be used.
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There is only one location where you can set up traps to be effective.
The Rogue/Ranger can do more damage then a full ranger even with full BAB. You just need to work the numbers. And rember you need a 15 Dex for double slice. You don't need alot of Int. It is no longer tied to disable device, or search. And you don't need that meny skills to do the rogues or rangers jobs.
The AP ends some where around level 21. So what your looking at in the end is. Rogue15/Ranger6 BAB17/12/7 Sneak Attack 8D6 Favord Enemy +4 +2.
Rogue Talents: Powerfull sneek, And Deadly Sneek (8D6SA Average damage 32.) Deadly Sneek removes the lower part of the bell curve on damage.
All you need is 4 skills. Every thing else is extas. Some nice extras, but extras.
Skills: Disable Device, Perception, Stealth, Survival
Combat Traning : Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting,
Feats : Double Slice, (If alowed from 3.5) Over Sized Two Weapon Fighting, Toughness.
Ability Scores : What your doing is makeing a Str base Two Weapon fighthing Ranger. NOT any thing else. Get the normal thoughs of rogue out of your head.
Str As high as you can get it is best
Con 14 is the min you want
Dex 15 required for Double slice. You will be going in to 20 pluss in this AP. Get a +1 tome to make it a 16 if you want later.
Wis 10 - 12 Is all you need you will only ever have 1st level ranger spells, but it affects your perception and survival skills.
Int You can dump this down to a 8 and not even notice.
Cha You can dump this down to a 7 and not even notice.
There is only one location where you can set up traps to be effective.
The Rogue/Ranger can do more damage then a full ranger even with full BAB. You just need to work the numbers. And rember you need a 15 Dex for double slice. You don't need alot of Int. It is no longer tied to disable device, or search. And you don't need that meny skills to do the rogues or rangers jobs.The AP ends some where around level 21. So what your looking at in the end is. Rogue15/Ranger6 BAB17/12/7 Sneak Attack 8D6 Favord Enemy +4 +2.
Rogue Talents: Powerfull sneek, And Deadly Sneek (8D6SA Average damage 32.) Deadly Sneek removes the lower part of the bell curve on damage.
All you need is 4 skills. Every thing else is extas. Some nice extras, but extras.
Skills: Disable Device, Perception, Stealth, Survival
Combat Traning : Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting,
Feats : Double Slice, (If alowed from 3.5) Over Sized Two Weapon Fighting, Toughness.
Ability Scores : What your doing is makeing a Str base Two Weapon fighthing Ranger. NOT any thing else. Get the normal thoughs of rogue out of your head.
Str As high as you can get it is best
Con 14 is the min you want
Dex 15 required for Double slice. You will be going in to 20 pluss in this AP. Get a +1 tome to make it a 16 if you want later.
Wis 10 - 12 Is all you need you will only ever have 1st level ranger spells, but it affects your perception and survival skills.
Int You can dump this down to a 8 and not even notice.
Cha You can dump this down to a 7 and not even notice.
I'm not planning on going rogue because I have no interest in TWFing. We already have people planning on playing front-line fighters (just not decided on their particular classes yet), and while I would certainly build the character as a typical switch-hitting ranger, archery is a superior fighting style in most cases.
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Not realy Archery works great if.
They don't have stealth.
They don't have range attacks.
They have full cover.
They have full concealment.
You are not in a dungon.
Or any combination there of.
So there are more ways to nagate archery then melee. Archery dose let you target enemys at range. The problem is most encounters start at close range. Not saying it's not worth it just saying it's not superior. Even with modren warfar they have found. That with close in fighting like citys. There is no replaceing hand to hand traning.
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May I recommend Witches Against the Age of Worms
The premise was: could a party of all witches succeed at this AP?
So far, so good.
We are just heading out from Diamond Lake to the mines, though, so much remains to be seen.
Not realy Archery works great if.
They don't have stealth.
They don't have range attacks.
They have full cover.
They have full concealment.
You are not in a dungon.
Or any combination there of.So there are more ways to nagate archery then melee. Archery dose let you target enemys at range. The problem is most encounters start at close range. Not saying it's not worth it just saying it's not superior. Even with modren warfar they have found. That with close in fighting like citys. There is no replaceing hand to hand traning.
Come on, now. I didn't say that melee was pointless. I just said that archery is superior to TWF (which has been pretty well established on these forums at this point). In either case, Power Attack plus a 2-hander will let me melee just as well as a TWF ranger (if not better, sadly) up until the mid-levels.
Back to the original topic, I did find one wizard spell that the witch lacks that I'll probably miss: haste. I know, the witch can get it from one of the patron lists, but odds are the witch player won't choose that one. Maybe if someone plays a half-caster like a bard we'll be able to pick it up around level 7.
I tend to disagree with Calagnar. First of all, I don't view the ranger as necessary as he suggests, I think having members of the party with strong ranged attacks can save their lives, and I don't view the rouge as highly important. Our party monk did fairly well for himself until the great TPK in adventure 4. Yes, Paladins and Clerics can definitely shine in the undead-heavy areas, and a well prepared wizard can handle almost anything at a high enough level.
I also think that the AP is diverse enough that any group of players going through it will find a way to make the most use out of their particular abilities. There is often far more ways to solve a problem than just one, and any group will be able to find their tactical stride and make it work for them. Or they will completely bugger it up and end up dead in the most horrific manner... the point is, that once you start a group going in the Age of Worms, they'll figure it out for themselves. I honestly have no idea about this Witch class you're talking about, but I'm sure with the support of the other members, they'll find a way to make it work for them.
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The ranger is for tracking in parts of the AP. The rogue is for all the deadly traps at high level.
I just listed optimized party. And if you don't think this AP is deadly. Jump over the the Age of Worms Obituaries bord. Amost every one feals this is one of the most deadly of the AP. It is not one you want to jump in to with out a plan befor you start.
What you need for the AP.
Combat ability and lots of it.
Socal skills mid to high level is where this most important.
Divine spells are required for parts of the AP mid level is where they show up.