On a scale of 1 to 5 or so with 1 being mildly lethal to 5 being a potential TPK-fest around what seems to be every corner. I was curious how those who have GMed/played would rate these. You can either do an overall score or break it out book by book.
All-in-all, the APs tend to be on the easy side.
Remember: they are designed for 4 players, 15-point-buy, and 20% of feats/options are wasted or otherwise unoptimized.
If you increase beyond those parameters, your experience will start to drift from "easy side" to "extremely easy."
My rapid-fire from the 3 APs I know best:
Rise of the Runelords:
Offerings: 2
Skinsaw: 5
Hook: 3
Giants: 3
Sins: 1
Spires: 3
Legacy of Fire:
Howl: 3
Beast: 4
Jackel: 1
Eternity: 1
Impossible: 2
Wish: 2
Kingmaker:
Land: 2
Rivers: 3
Vanishing: 2
Blood: 2
War: 1
Thousand: 4
On a scale of 1 to 5 or so with 1 being mildly lethal to 5 being a potential TPK-fest around what seems to be every corner. I was curious how those who have GMed/played would rate these. You can either do an overall score or break it out book by book.
I probably could give you better numbers if you detailed your scale a little bit -- for example, let's say a given book has a high likelihood of one or two PC deaths, but has a low likelyhood of a TPK -- where does that fall?
I think a lot of the APs would be something like that. For example, Howl of the Carrion King (Legacy of Fire Book 1) I would say has two fights that have a pretty high chance of killing A character if the GM doesn't softball them, a third in the set piece (optional part of the book) that can kill characters depending on what level they hit it at, and a fourth that actually has real TPK potential, but probably won't go that way if the players are a little smart and plan ahead. Where would you rank something like that?
I'd give part 1 of Kingmaker a bump to 3 or possibly 4 if you get unlucky rolling up random encounters. A Will o' the Wisp, Shambling Mound, 4 Trolls, an Owlbear, and other potential party wipes abound in the Stolen Lands if the party isn't used to running from encounters or gets unlucky. Other than that my only experience with the APs is in reading, not actual play or preparation, so all I have is secondhand knowledge of the actual in play lethality of the APs.
On a scale of 1 to 5 or so with 1 being mildly lethal to 5 being a potential TPK-fest around what seems to be every corner. I was curious how those who have GMed/played would rate these. You can either do an overall score or break it out book by book.I probably could give you better numbers if you detailed your scale a little bit -- for example, let's say a given book has a high likelihood of one or two PC deaths, but has a low likelyhood of a TPK -- where does that fall?
This is how I would break them out I suppose;
1 Low to moderate chance of single PC death, Low potential of TPK.
2 Moderate to high chance of single PC death, low to moderate
chance of multiple PC death, low chance of TPK.
3 High chance of multiple PC deaths, low to moderate potential of TPK
4 High to Very high chance of multiple PC death, moderate potential of a TPK.
5 Very high chance of multiple character deaths, high potential for a TPK.
Just played through Council of Thieves, so roughly:
BoE--1
tSFT--1
WLiD--2 (1 character death, though he was being somewhat silly and was ambushed by energy drain)
tIS--1
tMoF--1
tTDP--really really 1, so our GM buffed it by a huge amount to make it 2
If you don't have a Paladin, these numbers may vary.
When I ran the first half of a converted RotRL for the same players (except that I was GMing instead of playing) using the same rules and no more or less optimized, we had...different results:
BO--3 (5 character deaths, nearly a TPK but due to greed fighting a bonus monster)
tSM--4 (2 character deaths, almost a TPK, but characters jumped off a 200 foot building to escape that encounter)
HMM--4 (3 character deaths, almost a TPK twice)
FotSG--not done yet, but is looking to be at least a 3
We also played a little bit of Curse of the Crimson Throne, but we had only three PCs and the GM buffed everything a lot, so every fight was ridiculously hard. Thus, I won't rate it here.
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Curse of the Crimson Throne:
Edge - 2: Nice slow start, nothing to be too worried about
Seven Days - 4: Specifically, the final encounter area is very nasty
Escape - 2 or 4: Depends entirely on whether the PCs feel the need to kill absolutely everybody, and whether they take the many hints about the true nature of their enemies. Also much nastier if you upconvert to PRPG stats.
Ashes - 1: I can't think of a single ugly encounter, unless your players are utterly incapable of taking a hint.
Skeletons - 3 or 5: The very last encounter is fairly nasty while the "fourth of four" varies widely in lethality. My group lost 4/5 PCs in that encounter, while a group who has faced one of those before could lose none.
Crown - 2-3: I'm having to dial up the difficulty in several places, but I haven't seen yet how the end boss will turn out. I don't anticipate much trouble.
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BO--3 (5 character deaths, nearly a TPK but due to greed fighting a bonus monster)
Yeah. Bonus monster is icky, until the PCs realize it can't chase them. Other trouble spots are the underwater cave, and the helmet.
tSM--4 (2 character deaths, almost a TPK, but characters jumped off a 200 foot building to escape that encounter)
YES! As written, the final encounter area is begging for a TPK. My players flew to the top, then fled DOWN the stairs. Poor, poor choice. Best fix to this area is to swap her with her sister. Officially the same CR, but not in actual play.
HMM--4 (3 character deaths, almost a TPK twice)
I'm trying to remember where my people had trouble. All I'm coming up with are the picachus behind the fort. I wouldn't rank this one over a 3.
FotSG--not done yet, but is looking to be at least a 3
This was the last one my group finished before it fell apart. I'd call it a 2 or 3, but my guys were a crazy ninja SWAT-team by this point, so YMMV. If they haven't learned to stop kicking in the doors by now, they're never going to stop getting murdered.
BO--3 (5 character deaths, nearly a TPK but due to greed fighting a bonus monster)Yeah. Bonus monster is icky, until the PCs realize it can't chase them. Other trouble spots are the underwater cave, and the helmet.
That was actually only the cause of one death of the five, but it was almost a TPK. The underwater cave/helmet is kiteable.
tSM--4 (2 character deaths, almost a TPK, but characters jumped off a 200 foot building to escape that encounter)YES! As written, the final encounter area is begging for a TPK. My players flew to the top, then fled DOWN the stairs. Poor, poor choice. Best fix to this area is to swap her with her sister. Officially the same CR, but not in actual play.
Since they didn't beat X, she tormented them by joining with her sister and then Barl.
HMM--4 (3 character deaths, almost a TPK twice)I'm trying to remember where my people had trouble. All I'm coming up with are the picachus behind the fort. I wouldn't rank this one over a 3.
Those pikachus prevented a TPK when the Wizard retreated from X down there and she got blasted by the maximum jolt. The party almost TPKed when they agroed the top floor of Rannick and X&L all together. J got a x3 crit and one-shot killed the Paladin. Second near-TPK was against Barl (also with X&L who both escaped Rannick).
FotSG--not done yet, but is looking to be at least a 3This was the last one my group finished before it fell apart. I'd call it a 2 or 3, but my guys were a crazy ninja SWAT-team by this point, so YMMV. If they haven't learned to stop kicking in the doors by now, they're never going to stop getting murdered.
They tried to be SWATish. They really did. They even got over the wall unnoticed, which was impressive. But the captivating song is always on, even when not expecting intruders. They heard it, it captivated everyone but two people (and it got the Bard, so no Countersong), so an alarm got raised. Amusingly, the MVP was the cursing cleric of Calistria who used Blindness/Deafness on the Bard so she could Countersong. My group seems to have fallen apart as well for Rise. The general guy with his x4 crits nearly got a TPK, but the Witch was insanely lucky with the fifth level curse of choking or whatever (AFTER giving the general a -4 to Fort saves, he only failed on a 5, it required two failed saves, and he rolled a 5 and a 2).
Thanks for the feedback so far. We're currently in Council of Thieves and I am looking to run Carrion Crown or another AP once our current COT game is done so I wanted to see which ones would require me to potentially ramp up or scale down the AP and where the pain points may end up being.
Serpent's Skull:
Souls for Smuggler's Shiv - 4
Racing to Ruin - 2
City of Seven Spears - 1
Vaults of Madness - 2
Thousand Fangs Below - 1
Sanctum of the Serpent God - 2
Souls has a lot of mean stuff going on, including diseases, random encounters, monsters who are dangerous... all sorts of mean stuff. The temple at the end is rough, and the ghouls in the ghoul cave are TPK central. Add in that the party could theoretically be level 2 at the end of the AP instead of level 4, and you just have DEATH written all over it.
Everything after that is hardly as dangerous as the first module.
Offerings: 1 (1 AC death)
Skinsaw: 5 (no deaths)
Hook: 3 (1 AC death)
Giants: 3
Sins: 4 (2 deaths)
Spires: 3
Second Darkness:
Shadow: 1
Children: 2
Echo: 3
Endless: 2
Memory: 3
Descent: 3
Legacy of Fire (playing):
Howl: 3
Beast: 4
Jackle: 1
Eternity: 3
Impossible: 5 (2 near TPKs w/1 AC death, 1 death separately)
Wish: ?
Council of Thieves:
Erebus: 2
Sixfold: 1
WLiD: 2
Infernal: 2 (highly random)
Mother: 2
Thrice: ?
Thanks for the feedback so far. We're currently in Council of Thieves and I am looking to run Carrion Crown or another AP once our current COT game is done so I wanted to see which ones would require me to potentially ramp up or scale down the AP and where the pain points may end up being.
Carrion Crown is a different sort of beast. It is much more skill-check and role-play heavy that previous APs. (However, the 2nd most skill-and-rp AP was Council, so maybe that's your thing.)
In Carrion, the chances of the PCs getting stuck or up-the-creek, or running in to something they shouldn't, are very high unless they are very good at investigation. All the modules released so far have very strong investigation requirements, and if your PCs don't investigate (because they don't like to, don't have the skill-ranks-IG to, or are bad at critical-thinking-OOG) then the AP will fall apart for you.
Consquentally, since so much pagecount is given over to investigation, there are comparatively fewer total combats. Of the combats that remain, however, they are quite difficult. I'd give "4"s to both Harrowstone and Trial. I haven't formed an opinion on Moon yet, but I might give it a 3. Take those with a hefty grain of salt though, as there hasn't been time to put things at an objective distance yet.
Carrion Crown is a different sort of beast. It is much more skill-check and role-play heavy that previous APs.
+1 For Carrion Crown you are going to want a character with solid face/social skills, and collectively the party should be heavy on knowledge skills. Local, Nobility, Arcana, Nature, Planes, and Religion are particularly important.
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The underwater cave/helmet is kiteable.
I just recall the helmet handing out a lot of damage for level 2-3. But the OTHER underwater cave scared a number of fluids out of my players.
The party almost TPKed when they agroed the top floor of Rannick and X&L all together.
Ah, that'd do it. As written, it's much less scary. Only one sister, and she's on a different floor from the nasties up top.
They tried to be SWATish. They really did. They even got over the wall unnoticed, which was impressive.
Wow, that IS impressive. My folks did up from below instead of over the top. Even widening the space so that the inhabitants actually FIT, it just wasn't all that dangerous.
The song is relatively short range compared to the length of wall, so I'd call that pure bad luck on your PCs part.
The underwater cave/helmet is kiteable.I just recall the helmet handing out a lot of damage for level 2-3. But the OTHER underwater cave scared a number of fluids out of my players.
That one...yeah that one could be quite nasty. The Paladin was sad because he almost had fear immunity at that point.
The party almost TPKed when they agroed the top floor of Rannick and X&L all together.Ah, that'd do it. As written, it's much less scary. Only one sister, and she's on a different floor from the nasties up top.
Yes, they cam in through L's place, but she managed to bluff them into thinking she was planning on doing something less sketchy (absconding with K and having him abandon his duties) when she was stuck there and hiding from the ogres. PCs are suckers for a love story. She and X Dim Doored in from behind for a pincer.
They tried to be SWATish. They really did. They even got over the wall unnoticed, which was impressive.Wow, that IS impressive. My folks did up from below instead of over the top. Even widening the space so that the inhabitants actually FIT, it just wasn't all that dangerous.
The song is relatively short range compared to the length of wall, so I'd call that pure bad luck on your PCs part.
They picked the right place to go last (of the buildings inside the fort), so they were bound to get in the range while exploring all the wrong buildings.